This is a serious question about the law as it pertains to Texas state employees. I’m only wondering if there is any basis in law for my idea that an employee, who has not misrepresented his information, should not be held responsible for paying back-payments related to an incorrect insurance deduction.
In my case, I have been informed that the University payroll system has been taking out less than the required amount for insurance for several months now, and that I need to pay the difference of $900. Being a doctoral student, this is an obvious hardship and it seems unfair that I have to pay for their mistakes. The point that undermines my argument is that employees have access to their wage statements online. The person I spoke with told me “You should have seen that your insurance deduction went down. We all know insurance never goes down, so you should have told us immediately.”
Now, during the semester, I am a salaried employee. No timesheets, same money every month. Is the fact that I have access to these wage statements, and that I should have been checking them religiously, the reason why I would be held 100% liable for the $900 back payments.
Again, mods, I’m not looking for advice to do X, Y, and Z. What I want to know is, basically, is it an obvious, established legal fact that an employee is financially responsible for such errors in Texas? Or should I talk to an attorney?
You’re going to have to talk to an attorney, but it seems to me that you should be the one liable, not them – from a common sense point of view.
Think of it from their perspective, should they be out 900 USD just because you (may or) may not have noticed an error? How do they know youre not just trying to get an extra grand out of them?
I see your point, but it would also seem to make sense that if they actually had to pay for their mistakes, there would be more incentive to fix these errors.
They use a seemingly universally reviled system called Banner, which I’ve heard has done this to others as well. Perhaps Banner wouldn’t be so reviled if the law were as I said. Otherwise, what is the incentive for software companies to make accounting software that works, if the burden of those mistakes doesn’t fall on the entity that purchases it?
Folks, I’m going to leave this open for now. If you happen to have information about what Texas law is with respect to under deducting for insurance premiums, go ahead and post what you know. Please don’t give him advice about what to do.
I’m not familiar with Texas law, so I can’t speak to the specifics of your case. Every area always has a few non-profit legal aid organizations that specialize in employment issues. Here’s the TX state bar page on pro-bono programs:
You should try contacting the TWC or looking to the list of low-income legal aid organizations to find an organization that might be able to give you a more definitive answer.
In addition to the places I pointed out, and the ones that BrightNShiny did. You can get free legal advice from an attorney licensed in your jurisdiction at http://www.lawguru.com/
Thanks, **Gfactor **and Bright. Part of my problem is that I had no idea who to ask about the legality of this policy. These links look very helpful. Thanks again.
Is my optimism misplaced if I am encouraged by the fact you’re actually giving me links rather than saying “What? Of course employers can do that. That’s the most obvious question I’ve ever seen! Everyone knows that!”
All companies have policies for incorrect payments.
Look at it this way, if you OVERPAID for several months, would you want your money back? Of course you would.
What would you say if the University said, “Why should we pay for his mistakes”?
You’d be writing a post on how the University ripped you off.
The bottom line is you contracted to pay a certain amount per paycheck for insurance, and you did not pay that amount. Now you expect to get the insurance for less.
Just because it’s a big faceless entity doesn’t mean you get to profit by their error.
It’s really dependent on what laws and regulations Texas has in place for this sort of thing, which is why you need to contact a lawyer or state agency which specializes in Texas employment law. The other posters in this thread (except for Gfactor) are giving you legal policy arguments (that is, what they think the law ought to be) rather than making legal arguments, which would involve citing to the appropriate state law or regulation. A knowledgeable lawyer or state agency may very well tell you that Texas law permits the University to do this, or they may not. I can’t really say either way.
I’m 99% sure that if it were the other way around, where I was owed money, there would be some policy in place prohibiting me from getting my money back. Government seems to work like that.
In the future, of course I expect to pay the correct amount.
It seems pretty obvious to Markxxx and Todderbob that I’ve been stealing insurance, which maybe I have been. Is it also theft if I’m charged $7.50 instead of $10 on an item? If the store has some way to track me, like through my debit card, could they, 5 months later, charge me an extra $2.50 because of the outstanding debt? I guess they could, if I shouldn’t be able to profit from their error.
I usually work in accounting departments, and am often involved in payroll, and I’m 99% sure that you would indeed get an overpayment returned to you, even from a government employer. There’s nothing personal involved here; you, like every other employee, pays X for Y benefit. If you pay less than X, they expect the shortfall, and if you pay more than X, they’d return the extra. I don’t know what logic an employer would use to keep more money that you should be paying - coke and hooker fund?
This happened to one of my grad students. The University went after her for over $1,500 two month after she was graduated and gone. It was the Universitiy’s error, but they don’t care.
I knew she couldn’t afford it, so I paid it for her off one of my discretionary accounts. If I hadn’t they would have sent it to collections.
I’m thinking something like “Too late, you should have spoken up sooner.”
Incidentally, my contact in payroll said, “If it makes you feel any better, your department will also be charged for the shortfall. And I’ll charge them all at once!”:rolleyes:
Well, Gfactor, I guess there’s no more point in keeping this thread in GQ. Maybe it should go to IMHO, since I’m about to offer my opinion. I stole insurance, I guess. Silly me to think that there would be any consideration for the fact that an endowed university and a poverty-line student aren’t on equal footing.
My opinion? If the law gave the benefit of errors to the employee, there would be a great incentive not to have massively screwed up systems implemented. The first time something like this happened, everyone would make damn sure it didn’t happen again, because they would feel the pain.
Under the “you stole insurance” idea, which I guess I did, what incentive is there for anyone to make any attempt to fix problems like this? Fixing this isn’t causing anyone any trouble; it’s a couple of mouse clicks to slap me with $900 to pay.
I really wish I had one of those jobs where there were no consequences for mistakes.
I would just add to be sure that when you contact that lawyer or state agency, be certain to specify that you are a state employee. It is not at all unusual for state agencies to be exempt from certain laws/regulations , or for other laws/regulations to apply only to state agencies.
That’s a good point, and it’s part of the reason I’m hesitant to express and opinion either way. State legislatures have a habit of creating all sorts of weird regulations and exemptions for state agencies, and it’s a mistake to try and directly extrapolate from personal experience with private-sector employment or even employment with another state agency to this particular state agency.
