In general, as soon as you make a counter-offer, the original offer is no longer binding. So, their refusal of $37.50 is valid, and they are not required to stand by the earlier one.
Also, changing things between the interview and the offer, while not ideal, isn’t unethical. It’s jerking the rug, but it’s the offer that counts.
I think it’s odd that you counter offer higher than the one you accepted, but you’re entitled to do that. However, they’re unethical to make an offer that you accept, which they then renege.
Since you don’t have the first offer in writing, there’s not much you can do. Sorry. Keep looking and good luck! You’re better off without working for assholes.
There is no later, it was a one year contract at $60,000. if another job comes up immediately that’s better than that then you’re ahead. Any delay between offers is lost wages and a blank spot on your resume. For whatever reason companies like to see continuous employment.
Unless contract work is different in Canada than in the U.S. - it really doesn’t. It would be unprofessional of me to leave my contract before my year term was up - but I could. And if my dream job or one that paid twice as much came my way, I’d be nuts not to. But you do need to weigh the gain - you can’t jump unless its worth the professional hit.
(There is a guy in the Twin Cities that does SCRUM and is notoriously hard to place because he made an ill weighted jump where some very important people in the Agile community were involved.)
It’s not a negotiation. The OP was offered $35/hour with no benefits and accepted. The negotiation is over.
The next day they said, $30/hour with no benefits. So if he had accepted that, what’s the next cut?
I don’t understand why people are saying this is OK.
Personally, I think the OP should go back to school and improve his education (which he mentioned as an option) while he waits for the cycle of oil jobs to improve. That will happen; these things always run in cycles. And whatever company it is that he was interviewing with will then be really sorry about the way they treated potential employees during the down cycle, 'cause they won’t be able to get any during the up cycle.
This is how I feel exactly. It was a pretty low move to not honour the original offer. If I could have done things differently, I would have hung up the phone when he told me the pay had been reduced rather than countering.
I will probably end up going back for a thesis-based MSc. It would be a funded position (~21k per year) so I would at least have some income. It’s also possible to work on a part or full time basis once the coursework part of the program is completed so I would look into doing that.
No that wouldn’t have helped at all. And I don’t agree that taking a contract and walking out on it early would have been helpful to your long-term prospects, either.
If you haven’t already replied, send them a nice, civil, note, thanking them for their interest and wishing them good luck with their project. I think they’re a shabby company, but you may, in the future, cross paths with the individuals, and they might remember you if you show some class.
Good luck with school, though! Getting an advanced degree is rarely a bad idea, for an engineer.
Yes, extremely unprofessional. Take this as a valuable career lesson – it ain’t real until you have it in writing. Keep this in mind for the future – if someone extends a verbal offer, don’t accept or reject right then, ask them to send you the written offer for your review.
That said, there are plenty of businesses who are flat out bad at hiring / compensation negotiations, so this likely won’t be the last time you are forced to waste your time this way, unfortunately. I had one company a while back who wanted to convert me from an hourly contractor (through an agency, so what they paid was around twice what I got), where I’d already been working for them for six months – so they knew me, they knew what I brought to the table, and were taking no risks on me. The muckety-mucks of the company – not even my manager, but those above him who had no direct contact with my department – decided that a “permanent” job should be incentive enough, so their offer was 1. a pay cut of about $8000 a year PLUS 2. an additional 10-15 hours per week. Keeping in mind that JUST by converting me to direct hire they would cut their expenditure on me roughly in half. I pointed out there was no incentive for me to change our current arrangement in that case, and tried to negotiate in good faith. Their response was to suddenly have a “slow-down” in the volume of work, and jee they really didn’t need me to come in that week, and you know this slow period may last a while so go ahead and make yourself available for other work.
Until the ink is dry on his employment contract it’s always a negotiation especially in scenarios where there are more candidates than job slots. It may not be polite or mannerly but until you’re fully onboard things can change. The offended party always has the right to walk away.
Unless he’s a partner in the business or some type of corporate officer, even though he’s a PE, he’s apparently a peon. Nothing to be gained by going to the association.
Personally, I would feel that if I made an offer to someone to work for me at a particular salary, and that person accepted, then I should stick with the deal. It’s got nothing to do with politeness or being mannerly, it’s got to do with honesty.
Sure, there’s a later. There’s a first day at work: “oh, we’re actually going to be paying you only $25/hr.” There’s a first paycheck: “oh, sorry, you misunderstood. We’re paying that rate only have the first 90 days; until then, it’s $20/hr.” There’s an ongoing struggle: “oh, we really need you to work late tonight. And tomorrow night. And the next. And we’re going to lose your timecard so you don’t get paid for those extra hours until you take us to employment tribunal.”
And there are many many companies that see a resume that shows you’re out looking for a new job after only a few weeks/months at XYZ and throw the resume straight into the discards: you’re unreliable. You’ll jump ship too quick. There’s something wrong and XYZ is looking to get rid of you. It’s too risky to hire you. In a tight market, that can be the kiss of death. Continuous employment is good, but not unless there are reasonable chunks of time at each employer. (“Reasonable” depending upon your industry, your locale, and your level of expertise.)
We know it is not the PhD who turned down a tenured job because she was too busy to start. and didn’t want to take on such a heavy load.
Second interview:
Actually, this is going to be a contract, not employment (apparently, nobody seems to understand the difference).
OP: OK
First call
Great - we want you and can pay $35/hr for a year.
OP: Well, OK
Second call
Um, I couldn’t get HR to go to 35, how about 30?
OP: What do you think I am? Hell no!
Mgr: Well, if you’d like to pursue this, email me and I’ll see what I can do.
OP: Since you couldn’t get 35, I want 37.50!
You forgot the part where they rescinded benefits only after the second interview. That’s important, because it’s the entire reason the OP made a higher counteroffer to begin with.
Second call:
Mgr: Um, I couldn’t get HR to go to 35, how about 30?
OP: OK.
Third call:
Mgr: Well, HR won’t go 30 either, how about 25?
OP: OK.
Fourth call:
Mgr: Um, sorry, HR says 25 is too much. How about 22?
At what point is the OP allowed to conclude the manager is off on a wild tear, hasn’t talked to HR, and/or is just interested in seeing how low the OP will go? When the hiring manager says “we CAN pay you $35/hr,” to me that means the manager has talked to HR, has the budget, and is making a firm offer, not just tossing out a figure to see what happens. If the hiring manager doesn’t have the authority and/or budget, but is making offers, they’re at best misleading the OP, and that is a habit that will probably continue for the length of the contract (which might not be a year, either, because we have no reason to believe the manager has cleared that detail with HR/Budget either). If the company’s word can’t be trusted at the very beginning, it’s not likely to get any better once you’re on staff.
But that’s what the company did to him!
“Wanna work for $35? With benefits?”
“Yes”
“Nice. Except forget the benefits, I was just kidding about those.”
“OK, fine $35 without benefits.”
“Sucker! It’s really $30! Psych!”
They low-balled him three times. You do not want to work for this company. The hiring manager may have made the first offer in good faith, but it reveals that the hiring manager doesn’t have any real authority at the company, someone else does.
If he had accepted the job, it is a guarantee he’d be jerked around like crazy. guaranteed, because even if the guy who he’d be working is for is decent, he doesn’t have the power to protect his team from the rest of the assholes at the company.
Working “for the experience” only works if you actually get experience, and if you can put the company on your resume. If you’ve only worked there for a few months until you get a new job, putting that job on your resume is a negative, not a positive.
“Why are you looking for a new job after only 5 weeks at your current position?”
You absolutely cannot say during the interview that your current employers are assholes, and that’s why you’re looking for work. The second they hear you complain about your current job they’re going to figure that you’ll have the same sorts of complaints about them, that you’re a crybaby and a bellyacher and would be poison on the team.