You don’t know this. OP is in Canada. May well be entirely possible to negotiate certain benefits (since the biggie is government provided) as part of a long term contract.
Hell, even here in the US, I’ve had 1099 contractors that I’ve offered benefits (not health insurance, but other stuff) above and beyond the hourly rate. If I need the skills bad enough but can’t get the head count, there are all kinds of ways to sweeten the pot.
No kidding…
You are both not following the story (the “THIS IS A CONTRACT” part of the second interview), but the analysis - he is not in the US. US terms and laws do not apply.
The US has the W-2 “Contract House” situation because a contractor at BofA (when it was the world’s largest private bank) sued and got a ruling that he was an employee of the bank, and the bank owed back SS and unemployment payments, etc… Since then, US companies are really loathe to hire straight-up sole Prop, contractors. Levi Strauss made me supply my own pens and pads, post-it’s etc.
That does not apply to the OP. He is not in the US.
What “analysis” of mine is incorrect? I have no idea what point you’re trying to make. The OP was very clear that he was both in Canada and that he was applying for a contract job, and knew he was applying for a contract job. What does this have to do with my pointing out that he was equally clear that he was initially offered benefits for this contract job?
YOU were the one who said flat out that contract jobs do not have benefits. This is what I was responding to in the first place. Who said anything about labor laws, in the U.S. or anywhere else? It certainly was not me.
They made a point in the second interview to tell him it was a contract position.
If it was a position with benes, why would they advise as to actual condition of employment?
If OP did not know what ‘contract’ means, he should have asked.
It was stated to be ‘contract’. That means hi doesn’t get to now say they changed the terms of the offer - the offer was made as an hourly rate - not a salary. It was also specified as a 1 year term - not employment, which is indefinite.
All he gets to bitch about is the change of rate.
He was offered to make a counter-proposal. He chose to open with a rate above what has already been discarded as unavailable.
Maybe the OP had no idea what ‘contract’ meant at the second interview.
Maybe he didn’t catch that they were talking an hourly rate for a fixed term.
He had two calls in which to ask about the terms.
By the time he said “$37.50”, he had no believable reason to NOT understand what was being discussed.
As it is, an employer which had initiially liked him now considers him an idiot.
Unemployed AND has annoyed a possible employer.
They are not going to forget this, I can assure you.
So why is the OP still certain that he was offered benefits at the beginning of this whole process? I see no reason to doubt his word; otherwise, we have no real reason to discuss this.
Maybe because the OP was trying to get a job in Canada? Maybe those hosers up there have different, laws, customs, and conventions than Americans do, eh? Maybe Canada does not follow American labor law, eh? Maybe they customarily offer some perks to entice contractors to sign up, eh?
McJesus will never eat lunch in that town, again, no doubt.
I assume you mean the hiring manager, HR people, or others in the company might be so unprofessional as to gossip about an entry-level candidate, ruining prospects throughout the industry?
That’s possible, but could back-fire. If I were looking for experienced engineers, I know whose employees I’d start looking at.
Many qualified applicants and few available jobs = Ya wanna work or not. The company is looking for a warm body to fill a seat for a year, not a son-in-law for the owner. Sure the company’s got some problems, but I’m betting the landlord isn’t going to give a shit about those problems when he comes knocking for next month’s rent.
If the situation were reversed, and there were several positions for each qualified person, I’m betting more than a few of you would see nothing wrong with going back and demanding a little more than was offered and playing one employer against another.
I dont understand why the OP shouldnt take the job but keep looking.
OP turned down a $60,000+ a year offer in a field and market that jobs are scarce. The original offer was over $70,000 a year, and likely way above market. I think OP should have taken the job. At least he would have experience he can add to his resume.
Frankly, this sounds like you are extrapolating from your experience and understanding of contracting, which certainly is the norm in the US, to all contracting situations everywhere. There certainly are contract positions that come with benefits in the US-I have offered them to contract employees myself. It is rare for my business but it does happen. Contracting is even more complicated than hiring employees (who in the US certainly do not have to receive any benefits-not that anyone here has alleged that) and the process cannot be reduced to a single phrase.
And frankly the OP is a Canadian fresh out of school. He can be forgiven for not knowing the normal practices of contracting in the US.
The good news is he has an excellent alternative. An alternative that will benefit him far more than working for a company that treated their prospective hires as he was treated.
I doubt that the email with the “$37.50 or I walk!” has exited the original company.
But I’m sure it has been routed to all in HR and at least a few in Engineering.
The comparison to Tsipras is straight on the money - he had a good offer, tried to bluff his way into a better one and is left in a worse position than he started.
Add me to the group who suspects this was first advertised as a contract for 1 yr. and the OP did not know what the term meant.
I suspect it was spelled out in the second interview only because he started asking about employee benefits. To which contractors are not entitled.
After I accepted the offer? I can assure you that if I tried that - and I wouldn’t - I would be informed that even a written offer is not an enforceable contract in my state, and wished all good luck in my job search.
Okay, I read your OP out loud to my husband, who works in Alberta, in a mechanical engineering field where he hires and fires people. We had the exact same thought. As a new grad, with limited experience, you should have jumped on the offer, worked at $30/hour and then continued to look for something else. You either would have found something better quickly, or the market would have rebounded and the company would have been delighted to offer you higher to keep you.
In our collective opinion, a mistake. The market IS terrible right now for oil and gas, it won’t stay that way, but it sounds to us like they were trying to make it work based on their budgets (budgets are literally being be evaluated weekly at these companies right now, and shut downs are widespread).
Probably not what you wanted to hear, sorry.
You continue to say this and continue to be demonstrated wrong.
I have not been demonstrated to be wrong.
We have heard from US “W-2 contractors” as to the existence of such things in the US.
This is Canada.
Until we hear from the would-be client (not employer) as to the exact terms offered, the default has to be contract = $/hr for hours worked at client’s request.
No insurance, no paid vacation, no paid sick leave, no pension. Straight money-for-work.
The fact that some contracts MAY have added inducements does not change the definition of ‘contract’.
OP responded to the wrong job posting and misunderstood what was being discussed until sometime between the second interview and the second phone call.
Again, unless otherwise specified, contract means no side benefits.
Here’s a simple start.
Google ‘contract employee’ for the IRS definition.
p.s. - one of the first things you’ll find is that “contract employee” is an oxymoron.
A person is EITHER a contractor OR an employee.
My Gawd - I missed that the OP wanted to try to ruin the career of the guy who tried to bring him on and put up with his ignorance.
Yes! Contact the Professional Board - get his license revoked!
Then you can figure out to which new country you’d like to move, because nobody in Canada or the US will ever talk to you.
An offer made over the phone isn’t worth the paper it’s written on, and if the manager had any brains (something which isn’t clear) he would have included weasel words.
The negotiation part is the counteroffer to the $30 rate. And yeah, it’s not okay, but it happens.
Forget Tsipras - this guy is going for Tsipra’s first Minister of Finance - the one who told Greeks that voting NO on the first offer would ‘force’ the EU/ECB/IMF to give Greece the money with no nasty strings.
You saw how that worked out, right?
He had no ‘Plan B’, either.