Emulators/ROMs cause Windows to crash. Ideas?

Factual Questions
1

Part 1: Windows XP Service Pack 2, Pentium 3 processor

I was pretty late to jump on emulation, but a while back I downloaded both ZSNES and Snes9x, the two most well-known SNES emulators. I only had about 3 ROMs (Earthbound, TLoZ: A Link to the Past, Super Mario RPG). I was ecstatic for about a week, when I noticed one day, after having already rebooted the computer with no emulator running, everything was about 3 times slower than usual. I attempted another reboot, which proceeded to corrupt Windows and wipe my HDD. Joy.

I took the computer to both Staples, Best Buy, and a PC professional my mother knows, all of whom said the computer was completely dead; the hard drive wouldn’t even move. So, in the trash with that one.

Part 2: Windows Vista: Home Premium 6.0, Pentium Dual-Core processor

After several moons we purchased a new computer. I began to research emulator problems with Windows, and found no information whatsoever on the subject aside from occasional freezing or ROM corruption. My logic at this point was that the old computer was, well, old. It was going to buy the farm soon enough, and the emulator probably just pushed it over the edge.

However, my new computer had more than enough processing capabilities to handle a little SNES emulator, so I tried again. I found a different ROM for Earthbound from a different source, just to make sure there was no problems with the initial one (although both ran perfectly fine). I ran several different Complete Virus Scans (Norton 360, Trend Micro, Spyware Doctor, even Windows Defender), and my computer was clean. Within a week of wandering through Onett, Windows corrupted again. This time I was able to reinstall Windows, as the HDD did not die, but everything was wiped clean again.

Needless to say, I’ve never touched an emulator since. But I’ve never, ever heard of anyone else having this problem. Any thoughts as to why my computer is allergic to emulation?

2

I very much doubt that the emulation is what’s causing your problems; I too have never heard of such a problem, nor can I imagine how that would happen any more with an emulator than with any other kind of application. A SNES emulator is barely going to be more computationally intensive than MS Paint (well, perhaps I exaggerate a little ;)), and it’s not going to be doing anything wonky or unusual with drivers or any other low-level activity that might conceivably do harm to your computer or operating system.

More than likely there is some other source, and the proximity to emulator usage is entirely coincidental.

3

I think in all likelihood it’s the ROM itself that’s the problem. I don’t understand the structure of ROMs, but I’m assuming that they were responsible for Windows’ doom.

But I am not dismissing it as coincidental that two separate computers from different decades with different operating systems and vastly different computing speeds both get corrupted within one week of playing a ROM, and have never been even vaguely problematic during any other point in their lives.

Something’s awry.

4

Are you scanning these files for viruses and malware when you download them? The problem with emulation is that it isn’t entirely legal if you don’t actually own the original copies (and I think you’re technically supposed to extract the ROM’s yourself, but I’m probably wrong there). I use various emulators, SNES, N64, PSX, PS2, Xbox, and a Sega emulator, with very little problems. I have used these on both XP and Vista. The only things I’ve had to do with the more advanced games is tweak around with the graphics settings, but I’ve never experienced a complete slow down.

My guess is whatever sites you’re getting these files from caused the problem, where things have legal issues, you tend to get viruses and things.

5

I loaded an emulator for a TI programmable calculator, I was impressed with all of the clever ways that thing screwed up my computer. Certainly not proof that the SNES emulator is at fault but it’s an executable program so it could screw up just about anything.

6

No, still doubtful. I do understand the structure of SNES ROMs; I dissect, modify and recode them on a regular basis. (EarthBound in particular, coincidentally. I’m probably as familiar with EarthBound’s code and data layout as any other person on the planet, and more so than the original developers, even, since I work directly with the ROM and all they saw was the C code they compiled to build it. :P)

A ROM file is just a copy of all the data from the chips in a game cartridge. In the case of a SNES ROM, this will consist of large chunks of 65816 machine code, along with the image data, palettes, text, and other miscellaneous information that describes the game. But all this is just a pile of bits without any meaning until it is read and interpreted by the emulator. All the emulator does is read the machine code contained in the ROM and respond to it as though it were an actual 65816 microprocessor sitting inside a Super Nintendo. It’s just shuffling numbers around and sending the appropriate ones to your screen and your speakers, same as any other program you run.

It’s far more likely that you managed to pick up some malware or something of that nature from a ROM site – distributing copyrighted ROM images is illegal, so I wouldn’t assume that ROM sites are in any way reputable. Do you use a secure browser? Is your OS patched and up-to-date?

7

A bad ROM (whether maliciously so or just corrupted) might be able to crash the emulator, but unless your OS and emulator are both insanely stupidly designed, it shouldn’t be able to touch anything above the level of the emulator. If it’s anything to do with the emulation (and remember, correlation does not imply causation), then it’s more likely a problem with the emulator itself.

Actually, for a sane operating system, there shouldn’t be any way for the emulator to take the rest of the system down with it, even if it tried. But, well…

8

I use Firefox with NoScript, CookieMonster, AdBlock Plus, and Flashblock as the security components. My OS is as up-to-date as I’m aware is available.

It probably was one of the sites, but I’m curious as to how it would penetrate all that mumbo jumbo in Firefox, then proceed to leap over my firewall, escape detection by 4 Anti-Virus programs, and then start poking at the brain of my computer until it dies.

I don’t doubt the possibility, but where then does everyone get their ROMs? I don’t have a ROM dumping device. I suppose for safety’s sake, that would be the ideal, but then it would defeat the purpose as I’d be purchasing all the games to dump, and a game like EarthBound is NOT cheap:

9

I really don’t see how this could have anything to do with the ROM or emulator.

Plus, although the symptoms may have been similar, the two problems you experienced seem very different. The first one was a hardware issue, your hard drive simply failed after years of use, it’s very unlikely that it could have been caused by software.

Whereas, the second situation was clearly a software issue. Not necessarily a virus, maybe a corrupt software update or driver. If the symptom was just that it was running slow, and since it was Vista, it may have just needed more RAM. Despite what the system requirements might say, by time you get all your normal software installed, Vista needs at least 2GB of RAM to running smoothly.

10

Hmm. Interesting.

What was common between your two computers?

Did you get the emulators (ZSNES / Snes9x) from the same source each time?
Were there other programs you installed or ran near the time you played with the emulators?
Did you use any leftover hardware from the first computer in your second?

And what exactly do you mean by “Windows was corrupted” and “wiped clean”? Can you describe what happened? Did the computer bluescreen? Was the hard drive literally emptied/erased of all data/formatted, or did it have some sort of error message when it restarted again?

A virus may or may not be the culprit, but any virus that so thoroughly kills its host seems unlikely to survive in the wild for long. And most widespread malware these days have an economic motive behind them; simply destroying your data seems so old-school and… pointlessly barbaric… these days.

Could it be some other external factor? How long was the “several moons” between computer 1 and computer 2? Could you’ve had power (as in electricity) problems that only started recently? Increasingly powerful magnetic forces near your computer? Uh… unexorcised spirits?

11

The first one was an identical software issue. Windows became corrupted and could not successfully boot. Subsequently, the HDD died. The HDD failure due to age was my initial idea, until Vista crashed on my new one. That’s why I blamed the ROMs. My second computer runs at 2.50 GHz and has 4.0 GB of RAM and 586 GB of HDD space, more than enough to run an emulator well, especially considering very few background programs are ever active. Sorry if I didn’t make that clear. As of reading these responses, I’m shifting my finger to point at the actual ROM archives, which must have housed some pretty powerful malware. Is that the most plausible reason now?

12

The only thing my two computers had in common is that both ran Windows, and even then, I shifted from XP to Vista.

The emulators came from the same source: Emulator Zone http://www.emulator-zone.com/

No other programs except for miniscule background programs (and antivirus programs) would be active while playing.

The second computer is entirely unrelated to the first.

By “Windows was corrupted” I mean I received an identical message from both computers, telling me essentially that “Windows cannot boot”, and presented me with several options such as safe mode, all of which would just circle back to the error screen. The first HDD had a heart attack, but the second just had to be wiped clean manually in order to be salvaged.

Several moons was several weeks. The outlet was the same, but I got a surge protector for the new computer, and weather was never extreme over here during those times. The spirits have already been banished to the radiator, and I keep them at bay with roasted walnuts and nut butter.

13

You said the techs told you that “the hard drive wouldn’t even move”. This is physical damage to the hardware, it’s very unlikely that this could have been caused by software, malicious or not. It just doesn’t work like that.

14

>but I’m curious as to how it would penetrate all that mumbo jumbo in Firefox

This doesnt sound like a malware issue. Viruses dont usually destroy hard drives.

What other hardware devices do you have attached to this machine? Are you using the same keyboard or mouse? Any usb speakers? Any oddball devices? You could have a bad driver or a bad hardware device. Is your computer being cooled well? Is it plugged into a surge protector?

>Norton 360, Trend Micro, Spyware Doctor, even Windows Defender

Dont run more than one AV at a time. They will fight each other.

15

Folks, this is the reason you need to start using Virtualization. Build a Windows (or DOS!) image in a VM to run your emulators, save a copy that’s known to be good, and if it ever corrupts, dump the image and make another copy from your good image. Use VirtualPC, VMWare Player or VirtualBox, whatever you like, but isolating dubious code in a VM is just good practice.

16

Norton probably killed both of your computers.

17

The emulator itself is already isolating the dubious code. Emulators are perfectly legal, and so can be gotten from trustworthy sites. The roms are less legal, and can only be gotten from shady sites, but they can’t hurt anything outside the sandbox the emulator gives them.

18

Actually that’s a real possibility, for the second computer at least. There’s a whole host of antivirus and “security suites”, that are worst than most of the malware they’re supposed to prevent. Norton, McAfee, and AVG to name a few.

The worst ones are the evaluation software that comes preinstalled on computers. After the 30 days, it keeps popping up scary alerts about how your system will be at risk if you don’t buy a subscription like the mob asking for protection money.

19

But say I run the emulator in a VM and for whatever reason it DOES repeat the same malarky and corrupt everything in site, will my computer be safe because it’s restricted to the VM?

20

Hm. I’ve never heard of Emulator Zone before. Not that there’s any particular reason to think they’re untrustworthy, but I’d probably get the emulators from the official sites, e.g., http://zsnes.com or http://snes9x.com.