Enforce the third amendment!

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

(too mundane for the pit)

Let me introduce you to my brother, an E-5 in the USAF. His wife is a stay-at-home mother of three (all under 6). Like us, they live in Hawaii. I live in suburban Honolulu, they live on Hickam AFB. They likes to brag about their free housing, free medical care, and free preschools. She also points about the significant discounts using on-base gas, rec facilities, exchange, and especially commissary (that alone makes any Hawaii Safeway shopper cry).

With all those benefits, they have disposable income for two SUVs, huge 3D TV, multiple iPhones, iPads, and high-end laptops (yes, all plural). Last evening, she showed us her new $300 margarita blender.

As if that wasn’t making me jealous enough, she showed me 4 gallons of milk in the fridge. With Hawaii’s milk hovering around $6/gallon, this was the last straw :wink: . “Oh no, as military, we get these free from WIC!”

So, I was looking over their collection of Wii/Xbox/PS3 games (they naturally have all 3!), when she started complaining about how her husband was going to be deployed. It was totally unfair to send him to Qatar for a few months to observe weather (not war-zone). Leaving her alone with her kids; the military must hate families. It’s because Obama hates the military. And on and on.

I didn’t really listen too much, I looked at all the nice benefits my taxpayer dollars gave, nay, enabled them. A free house in Hawaii… and my taxpayer dollars are quartering them!

Lest you think I’m just bitter and jealous (okay, a little bit on the milk), go ahead and look up what an enlisted E-5 makes.

Sign me up for #OccupyThirdAmendment!

2

So if it bothers you so much, join him. Enlist, request HI, and quit bitching about how your brother is getting over. Or come right out and say it that you don’t think he deserves what he is getting from your tax dollars.

SFC Schwartz

3

HubZilla, unless your brother goes carreer, and retires only after the kids are out of high school and out of the house and into whatever, you’ll get the delicious satisfaction of watching their eyes bug out of their heads if/when they re-enter the civilian world and have to start paying the civilian equivalent of all that free gov’t cheese on their own dime.

Even retirees with no kids to worry about anymore damned near stroke out when they have to make a civilian paycheck cover all that stuff.

4

I wish I could still buy stuff on a base, but I don’t think that benefits received by military families is the problem. It sounds like the problem is the wife who gladly accepts the benefits but doesn’t want to hold up ‘her’ end of the contract.

5

The OPs a little opaque, but I think he’s commenting on the weird way the military basically pays its personal with a hodgepodge of benefits and special programs rather then just giving them cash (according to the paychart, and E5 only makes 25k a year, which especially in Hawaii, probably wouldn’t be enough to support five people without the free housing, food. So I think the “jealousy” is sarcastic).

I imagine the end result is that its a good deal if you are in the military and have a large family to take advantage of the freebies while your off in Qatar, and not so much if your unmarried and childless.

6

My brother-in-law (SO’s sister’s husband) was smart when he retired from the Navy, he went to work for civilian companies that stock military bases with non-military goods, like groceries and beer. I’m not sure how this works, but although they have to pay for their own off-base housing, they still get to shop on base at military prices. He’s in management, not sure if that makes a difference.
Roddy

7

Also, as far as I can see, the brother lives in his own home. Ergo, OP, he isn’t being quartered in the homes of citizens. Which is what the 3rd Amendment (my favorite and most unused Amendment) forbids.

8

The only reason stuff at the BX/Commissary seems so cheap is because the cost of living in Hawaii is so high. I don’t even bother to go to the PX/Commissary at our local Army base unless I’m there for some other reason because the prices aren’t low enough to make a difference and it’s a hassle to get on base. Airman will use the BX at his base, but he’s already there and he only goes for snacks and uniform items.

But yeah, the military pay and benefits structure is weird. If you live in off-base housing, as we do, you get cash that is added to your paycheck, and a lot of government programs like WIC don’t or can’t consider that as income because it’s supposed to go to paying rent and bills and such. On the other hand, if you live in on-base housing, you don’t have rent or utilities to pay, but you don’t get the cash, either, so you have to stretch your paycheck out with WIC and (in some cases) food stamps. That being said, however, it sounds like your brother and sister-in-law are going to have a rough time adjusting to civilian life where they will have bills and rent. They will quickly learn that rent and food come before the latest toy, and that Mom had best get a job.

9

Just curious - they’ve got all these expensive electronic toys, but do they even have a savings account? Anyone with a spend-for-today attitude will have more cool stuff than someone who sets aside a few buck.

As for commissary/exchange privileges, like MsRobyn, I considered them more of a hassle than they were worth when I was on active duty. And in Jacksonville, FL, the gas on base was always within a penny or two of the local market price, yet the lines were ridiculously long. I’m not a big drinker, but the only significant savings I ever saw was on liquor - I could get Kahlua cheaper on base than in town.

Now, I was in the Navy over 25 years ago when I got out, but when I remember everything I had to do to earn my active duty pay, including such fun chores as cleaning toilets in the hangar and waxing the shop floors in addition to my responsibilities of maintaining and repairing the electronics on Naval aircraft, standing security watches, working the midnight shift, working 12-hour shifts without overtime pay, along with the really significant stuff like standing in the sun for a couple of hours for a uniform inspection… well, based on hours worked and pay received, it was definitely less than minimum wage. And I was single at the time - can’t imagine what it would have been like with a spouse and kids.

10

Much better than the Canadian military where the pay is equally low and there isn’t free housing (base housing is slightly cheaper than local costs) and many of our military families are living below the poverty line.

11

You also have to realize that E-5, at least in the USAF, is a rare sweet spot. You come in as an E1-E3, making about what your friends just out of high school are making, plus benefits (it’s a good job). 4-6 years later, you’re generally an E-5 making double what you were on day 1, well beyond what your peers are making. This is for 2 reasons – first, you’re likely to have a budding family at this point, and secondly, a lot of people separate after their first enlistment.

Most young enlisted folks get stars in their eyes and spend all of their new found riches. But the party doesn’t last. The next 15 years is a slow grind of minor pay raises. Average time in service for a new E-6 is 12 years, so a lot of folks are looking at 7 years without a promotion.

-steronz, who rode out the wave of money and jumped ship right as things were leveling off.

(I do question the claim of free pre-school. Daycare is heavily subsidized, but not free, and it’s not exactly pre-school. I think the WIC thing is bullshit, but I just looked it up and apparently HI has a higher poverty line drawn. I’m surprised they still make it under the cut with all their various allowances. I hope the WIC program takes all of those into account).

12

I would suspect that he is deeply in credit card debt. I was in the Navy as an enlisted man for 23 years and there is no way I could have afforded all of that as an E-5 by paying cash. Hell, even as an E-7 with four kids, it was no picnic. Ignore him. All that debt will eat his lunch before long.

13

This isn’t about the 3rd Amendment - puhleze. You’re just jealous of your brother because he’s either doing better than you are, or you simply think he is.

Grow up and get over it. Nobody’s got a gun to your head forcing you to live in Hawaii and judging from your website you certainly don’t appear to be going without in order to pay your enormous tax bill to foot your military brother’s lifestyle.

If anyone should be given a few breaks it’s those who are putting their lives on the line for their country.

14

I agree. You should come right out an bitch about it. I do when my sister and brother-in-law bitch about the low housing allowance he gets (which is higher than my mortgage payment) or his low pay (which is comparable to mine) or the long lines at the Exchange (where I can’t go.)

The people who join the military have made a choice just like the rest of us. If they are getting more than they deserve (however you measure that) it is because Uncle Sugar is offering. They aren’t stealing anything. Doesn’t mean you can’t counter-bitch when the brother or his wife get started.

15

Yeah, it was mostly tongue-in-cheek, especially about the 3rd amendment. I have no problem with his service to our country; I was just surprised how well they got it. Maybe I’ve read too many “Soldiers make less than Senators, repost if you’re not a pinko socialist librul”

They do get a free pre-school, at an on-base school (not day-care). The kids have developmental issues, so it might be part of a program. It did seem odd that they got WIC on top of all their benefits, especially with the lifestyle they seemed to be living. But I’m also told in the civilian world, it’s not uncommon to visit the WIC office in Escalades.

Granted, I do think their “investing in electronics” makes them an outlier, and not a curse against military members in general. “Well, Uncle Sam takes care of my home, health, and (more or less) food, so all this is free money for Best Buy!”

16

Preschool at most bases isn’t free, but it is very cheap relative to the civilian market. I think we were paying around $125 a week when the sprog was in military daycare. My sister-in-law has her son at her base’s preschool, so I will talk to her to see how much she pays per week.

In terms of WIC, states are free to set the maximum income threshold. Hawaii has a very high cost of living, so naturally the maximum income needed to qualify is going to be higher. Even more important is that this family doesn’t get the allowances for housing because they’re living on base in military housing, so they’ve got less cash than other families who don’t live in military housing.

That being said, it seems that this family is either in credit-card debt up to its eyeballs, and God help them if their debts are paid each month by allotment; it’s entirely possible to have more going out than you make and the military hates that. If they pay for at least some of this stuff in cash, it seems likely that they would not be able to cover an emergency without help from his unit or from Air Force Aid. Either way, the military expects its people to be financially responsible, and from your description, it sounds like they’re not.

That said, however, it’s possible that there may be more here than you’re telling us (or that you know). At least some of that stuff may have been purchased with a windfall, such as a re-enlistment bonus or a tax refund. I wouldn’t begrudge them that. But if it’s all thanks to Visa and the Military Star Card, they’re going to need help digging out, and it won’t be pretty.

17

I guess her complaining about the deployment should’ve been a seperate pit topic. Hey, I get it: it sucks. I would not look forward to being away from my spouse and alone with the kids for months. He’s not in a combat position (weather) and not going to a war zone (Qatar), so it’s likely he’s coming back. Plus, we’re here to help out.

But he has re-enlisted, so they know this can happen. It seems odd that she boasts about these benefits of marrying a soldier, and then loudly complains when he has to be a, you know, soldier. Especially cursing the Air Force and Obama publicly on FB (which must do wonders for my brother’s career).

Another thing I found odd: They both hate Obama. It’s not a sophisticated opposition, basically reiterating urban legends and general claims (democrats oppose the military, they want gays in, they’ll take away guns, etc). But it is a very sincere hatred, which I found that odd as he’s his commander-in-chief. Especially when they refused to give Obama any credit for the Bin Laden raid. (“Soldiers did it despite him, and Bush really got the ball moving”). When I pressed him, he said most of his fellow military hate him too. Really?

18

You forgot to mention the $600+ per month that he gets as a Cost of Living Allowance. He gets that too!

19

Unless things have changed since I was there, motor vehicles bought in Hawaii can not be shipped off the Rock until they’re paid off. Meaning that people would have to sell at fire-sale prices when they were stationed elsewhere; although they’d probably bought the cars in the first place for sweet prices from earlier departed servicemembers. But when the post-Desert Storm downsizing was going on, it was ugly.

20

There were lots of individuals in my chain of command I didn’t personally care for when I was in. Why should the president (any president) be different?

I was required to respect the office of the presidency and follow the orders that came down from it - which I did. I was never required to personally like Bill Clinton, and I usually didn’t. No problems there.