Engineer_comp_geek, are you *aware* how racist this moderation sounds?

And still my point stands about the thread in question.

Of course he was problematic, that’s why he got a thread ban. What makes your perceptions more Pure than others? Being a jerk is being a jerk.

No it doesn’t, he got a thread ban for good reason, he derails threads all the time.

First of all, let me say that there were quite a few things that I wanted to say in that thread, but I also felt that the thread needed to be closed and I did not want to abuse my power as a mod to get the last word in on a bunch of stuff.

One thing is that I do have a lot of sympathy for @Banquet_Bear. Racism is a horrible thing regardless of what race is being mistreated, and I do have a lot of sympathy for those who have to endure being mistreated no matter how big or small the slight. I am a child of the 70s and I grew up with the core value that everyone is equal regardless of race.

And for the record, for those who want context, I am an old white guy.

Another thing that I would like to say is that I personally don’t know how indigenous people are treated here on the SDMB because it doesn’t seem to come up very often. I think that it is an issue that is worth looking into and we have actually started a discussion about a lot of things from that thread in the mod loop.

While I do have a lot of sympathy for @Banquet_Bear, that doesn’t mean that he gets a free pass to derail every thread where the issue comes up.

@slash2k’s initial comments weren’t that bad, but @Banquet_Bear read more into them than was there, and the ensuing argument threw the entire thread off of the rails. @Banquet_Bear similarly misread moderator comments and his anger, while understandable, made it impossible for there to be a reasonable ATMB discussion on the issue as well.

That is the issue. Even if you are on the right side of an argument, that doesn’t give you the right to completely derail a thread.

If anything I said came off as racist, I apologize. That was not my intent.

Yes, they absolutely were.

This is the whole point - you don’t get to say

and then also make comments about whether comments aren’t “that bad.” when an actual Indigenous person was saying “yes, they were.” Angry or not.

I mean, why do you think he got angry in the first place?

That’s a really horrible characterization of what’s being talked about here.

BIPOC people are constantly being asked to modulate their tone when discussing racial issues that affect them. The tone becomes the focus instead of the content, and it’s exhausting to be repeatedly told to just be calmer, nicer, and more polite when pushing back against aggressive comments.

This isn’t something just Mr Dibble is pulling out if thin air- it’s a major part of the conversation on how we should be discussing racial issues. It is not up to the BIPOC person to have to be nice enough to earn being heard.

I do this work as part of my job all the time and I don’t always get it right myself. It’s hard- but when it’s done poorly it deserves being called out.

You said this exactly right. This is what I tried to explain to him in the ATMB thread, but you said it better.


My perceptions are more “pure” because I have extensive training in this area, I am heavily involved in this work professionally and scholarly, and that experience helps me see things through a different lens.

Also, for anyone who does this work intent doesn’t really matter, but rather impact. After you deal with impact, you can deal with intent.

I’m trying to listen rather than express an opinion at this point - but I couldn’t let this pass without comment. It’s superb rhetoric, especially if the metaphor is original.

As far as I know, yes it is.

I think he read more into some posts than was actually (you too, FWIW), but I do understand why he got angry.

And again, while I think his anger is justified, that doesn’t give him or anyone else the right to completely derail a thread over it.

Yes, this is true, I think everyone agrees with this. However, we have at this board a don’t be a jerk rule, which he violates all the time and is never called on. We have a forum specifically for people who are angry at something or someone. If he feels someone is out of line, let him take it to the pit, where his behavior fits right in, instead of ruining the thread foe everyone else.

What is your standing to say so? Versus his?

How can it be “justified” if he’s “reading too much into some posts”? If it’s justified, then the posts justified it. Like I said, he didn’t start out posting angry in that thread. Unless just bolding words is “angry” to you?

The argument isn’t if the posts should be moderated. The argument is the specific moderation focused on BB’s tone as being the issue, separate from content.

There can be a way to achieve the goal without tone policing BB to exception of the content of the post, and while acknowledging his right to express his righteous anger. Part of the problem is that the moderation was a dismissal of the righteousness portion, and just a focus on the anger.

So, only @slash2k should have been thread banned or neither should have been thread banned? Because tone was the whole point, that tone is not acceptable in MPSIMS.

Only slash2k should have been thread-banned, and with a warning, and that for the content of their posts, not the tone. Banquet_Bear should just have been mod-noted, if that. And certainly not had his ATMB thread closed with more weaponized tone policing

My evaluation of it was that initially their comments on both sides were acceptable for the forum. However, their resulting back and forth was not, so both were thread banned.

I am required as a moderator to evaluate posts and determine whether or not they are acceptable for the forum (which is not the same as saying that I approve of them), and if they rise to the level of hate speech or otherwise violate the rules.

If you have something specific to recommend, I would be happy to hear it.

I’m pretty sure you’re not required to do so in the most racist-sounding way possible, with the condescending advice on how a PoC can best tone-police himself…

What about B_B’s post violated the rules? Sarcasm isn’t against the rules in ATMB, last I checked.

And just so we’re clear, this thread isn’t about the original thread, it’s about you closing the ATMB thread and the way you did so. I wanted to make that clear since you spent most of your first reply here talking about the original MPSIMS thread, not the ATMB one. Even if the modding in the first thread was correct (it wasn’t), this thread would still exist just from your closing post in the ATMB one.

If you are referring to @Banquet_Bear’s other thread that was closed in ATMB, the thread wasn’t closed due to rule violations. @Banquet_Bear was starting to drive that thread off the rails as well, and the thread was clearly no longer serving any practical purpose.

I allow a lot of rule violations in ATMB as long as the underlying purpose is to resolve some sort of issue. If you come in here angry I’m generally pretty forgiving about that (other mods wanted to issue warnings for some of the posts in the other ATMB thread). Not so much in other forums. If you are angry and drive a thread off the rails in any of the other non-Pit forums, expect to be moderated for it. Like I said, even if you’re right, that doesn’t give you a free pass to derail threads.

Sarcasm isn’t technically against the rules in ATMB, but since the point of ATMB is often to resolve issues, sarcasm is rarely helpful and generally works counter to that goal.

Why do you need to ask, when I helpfully included a link to the post in question and everything?

It was his own thread. And I certainly didn’t see it going off any rails. His post was on-topic and related to the modding of the thread he was no longer allowed to directly comment in.

The issue here is modding on race-related issues. A little anger from the marginalized is perfectly on point for that.

No, it’s the response to well-deserved sarcasm that often derails things.

And this issue is never going to get resolved if you keep shutting up the people who have every damn right to be a little sarcastic. Earned that right, I’d say. That goes for questioning the modding on racism, on misogyny, on transphobia.