Sweet. I’ll pass on the toff’s rugger one, thanks, but the cricket one will be great.
Is anyone else a bit concerned that sooner or later, the football “industry” will suffer the same sort of catastrophic collapse that the banking industry had a couple of years ago? We have already seen the warning signs (Portsmouth, West Ham, Leeds, countless smaller clubs), is it only a matter of time until the bubble bursts and almost all clubs declare themselves bankrupt? At the moment, most clubs are being backed by private wealth, but it seems that most of this is ultimately driven by bank debt (viz, Liverpool, Man Utd). Worrying times continue, methinks.
In more prosaic matters, it was good to see Rooney hit some form at last, lets hope he can sustain it for a bit. I am still concerned about defensive frailties - in the MOTD commentary last night, they said “Bent got in front of his marker” for Villa’s goal, but the fact is there was no-one within 5 yards of him, which is ridiculous. I hope that particular incident was a one-off, given that 3 of United’s players somehow managed to lose the ball when it, they, and one opposing player were occupying the same 3 square yards of the pitch, which created the hole for Bent to run into.
I hate to say it, but despite this United look the least likely to drop points out of the top five at the moment, so someone is going to have to put together a really good run to overhaul them.
On a separate subject, any other Man U fans unable to feel very sorry that Gary Neville has retired? I have never really felt any affection for him, despite the reliable and, at times, exceptional service he has provided over the years.
Well, I was about to post an “oh, fuck, commentator’s curse strikes again” kind of follow-up, but now I realise the previous post is still mostly correct (United dropping points - to the bottom-placed, unluckiest club! - aside). It was defensive frailties (exacerbated by Rio’s injury, though at least it will keep him out of yet another utterly pointless friendly) that cost us, and all the top 3 dropped points as well (Arsenal in spectacular and amusing fashion), so we are only 1 point worse off overall - can’t be too disappointed with that as long as it does not continue.
Not sure how to answer that one. Am I sorry he has retired? No, for the simple reason that he has been all but retired for a number of years now. Rafael, Wes and John O’Shea are all ahead of him in the pecking order, and I think he has been kept on by Fergie for morale reasons, rather than playing reasons. So his retirement will have little effect on team matters.
On the other hand, am I sorry he has now retired? Yes. He has been an outstanding player for United, a great servant, and a better player than many give him credit for. As far back as Euro 96 I remember Alan Shearer saying something to the effect of, " He is a superb crosser of the ball, I could live on Gary Nevilles crosses". Whatever the exact quote was I dont know, but its a great compliment from the type of centre forward that would appreciate a good cross.
There hasnt been a better right back in my time watching football. (Cafu my arse)
Well, this thread is long overdue another revival, even if it is only for me to express my disgust at Mr Rooney’s latest piece of idiocy - a thuggish move that should have earned him a red card. As I think I stated upthread, I will never see him in the same light and this incident confirms my opinion that I would rather he had left United if he is going to act like this.
I think if the referee can be criticised for anything, it is for awarding the free-kick - he clearly did not see the actual contact otherwise he would have sent Rooney off, he obviously just saw the Wigan player holding his head and stopped play at that point, he must have assumed (innocent until proven guilty) that Rooney had caught him by accident in running towards the ball, which is why he did nothing more than have a friendly word with him - “keep your arms down” or something of the sort, I suspect. But with any luck the FA will be able to apply some punishment retrospectively.
In what should be the main news, the scoreline flattered us considerably but I don’t care - four points (and a possible important 6 goals) clear is about the best one could hope for at this stage of the season, given some of our performances - if we can get any points against Chelsea in midweek that will be a good result, too. Someone on Final Score on the BBC yesterday (I think it was either Garth Crooks or Dion Dublin), when asked “United travel to Liverpool and Chelsea this week, what would be a good result for them?”, replied “two wins”. Duh. I think in reality 4 points would be more than acceptable, I would probably settle for 2 or 3 - anything less would be a minor disaster.
Does anyone think Arsenal can pick themselves up after losing the Carling Cup to provide some opposition to Man U taking the title.
Losing the Carling means nothing. Plenty excellent teams lose finals.
Now, the real question is: can we even grab a CL spot now that Fabregas, Van Persie and Walcott are injured, Nasri not recovering and Vermaelen’s return is as mysterious as it was months ago? With the likes of Bendtner?
I’m sure I can’t be the first to notice this because it is patently obvious, but it seems to me that Arsenal’s problem is that they have far too many similar players - even if most of them are injured. I don’t follow Arsenal so I may be wrong about some of these, but it seems to me that Walcott, Nasri, Arshavin, Wilshere, and and Rosicky are all basically wingers who like to run at defenders, Fabregas and Van Persie are both play-makers (although of course one plays in midfield and one up front), and Chamakh and Bendtner are fairly similar strikers. In short, they have too many flair players and no-one (like Vieira) who can sit in defensive midfield. As a result, when one of their dazzling attacking moves breaks down, they can be caught too easily on the break. And when their slick passing game isn’t working, there is no plan B - they can’t seem to grind out a dour 1-0 win like Chelsea and Man U can.
I don’t think losing the CC final will have a massive effect on them (though I am of course glad that they did - only a draw would have been better) - if anything, it will give them even more determination in their remaining competitions. But I can’t see them catching United unless we have a serious loss of form.
I think that is somewhat correct, but I would not point to defensive midfield as the problem - both Song and Wilshere have been very good in that role this year, IMO.
The main problem defensively are the lack of a big tough center back (Djourou is improving, but their complete inability to deal with someone like Zigic was obvious yetserday) and the fact that there is no depth at the position either. The fact that Arsene didn’t buy another CB in the window knowing how hurt Vermaelan was shocking to me. Add in a few midfielders who don’t seem to like to track back (Arshavin in particular), and the defense is far too frail.
The other point is well taken too - the lack of a second option when teams like Birmingham play the entire game with 10 men behind the ball. Walcott is the only one who really provides another option, and Cesc is a level above when it comes to breaking down the defense - when he is out the creative takes a dive. Without Walcott and Cesc it quickly dissolves into short passes through the middle until the player on the ball gets crowded out.
That said, without the cock-up between Sczesny and Koscielny (dear God I can’t spell those names) I think they win that Final. Birmingham was not very threatening in the second half.
As far as the league… without Cesc, RVP, and Walcott it seems impossible. And I would be very shocked if they get a result at Nou Camp as well. Now just add in a loss to Leyton Orient in the replay and we can go from being in 4 competitions to having the season over in a tidy 2 weeks. The Barcelona fight back in the first leg will likely prove to be the season highlight.
And maybe I should add that I’d much rather watch a 2-1 cup final loss than a good number of Chelsea’s 1-0 wins over the last few years… but maybe that’s because I’m only a semi-serious football fan.
No, I think that’s because you’re a normal football fan :).
I think the problem in defensive midfield is that, as you say, when Song or Wilshere get forward no-one is there to cover the back four, who are themselves not the strongest. Think you’re probably right about the final - you’d have to back Arsenal to win on penalties, if nothing else.
Dead Cat, re: Rooney, I’m not too bothered by it. I think it was intentional to hit McCarthey, though not necessarily in the head. McCarthey knew what he was doing by trying to sneak into Rooney’s way, which I think he didn’t make a big fuss about it. I can see that a red would be deserved, but it’s not because Rooney’s losing it or anything like that. The win at Wigan should be just what United need to kick things into gear in the league. The Chelsea, Arsenal, and Liverpool away matches will be tough, but I’d be surprised if there is anything less than 5 points gained from them. The hoodoo with “lesser” clubs away from Old Trafford should be over now that the players will remember what they should have known all along, that they’re by far better and simple concentration/effort on the road will win the league. The Marseille draw was certainly disappointing, though.
I can’t wait for tomorrow. A United win at Stamford Bridge would be the first since '01 if I’m not mistaken. It’d be nice to bury Chelsea’s chances of anything (I’m not convinced that Copenhagen won’t win 3-1 in a couple weeks, and if not, Chelsea aren’t beating 3 more top European clubs this season) and let them get in a serious battle with Spurs and City for 3rd & 4th. And Cashley? 
Regarding Arsenal, I don’t know what to think, other than I don’t think they’ll win anything once again. Wilshere has been wonderful the past few weeks (I know he’s done well, but the Barcelona match was an eye opener), and I’d kill to have United take off Arsenal’s hands. I don’t think the Carling final will have much influence on the other campaigns. What BCFC did to them will matter little when it’s Manchester United and Barcelona that they’re facing. By the way, is it confirmed that Van Persie is out for a while now? Was it directly related to that hit he took when he scored yesterday? I missed it when he was subbed out, but he kept playing into the 2nd half, and I don’t know how he coped midway through the 2nd.
Frankly, Evra has continued to be proven right for the past few years that it’s just men against boys right now. Wilshere seems to be the only one with some guts, but I don’t think Scholes, Fletcher, Anderson, or Rooney will be bothered by it. The comments from Ben Foster about United’s mentality were revealing, and I think that’s why United will finish ahead of Arsenal again.
Martin Atkinson, piss up a rope.
Unfortunately, that’s all too typical a view from United fans.
Am I supposed to think of the children? If McCarthey hadn’t hopped into Rooney’s path, I don’t think Rooney would have thrown the elbow. I wouldn’t encourage him or anyone to do it, but guys get physical all the time in the game. So it goes.
It wasn’t just getting physical. If he wasn’t so fucking protected by the refs, if he played in a time where strikers weren’t fellated by officials on the pitch, Rooney would have learned what happens to arrogant little pricks on the pitch. And he’d be a much better player for it.
Rooney absolutely deserved a red card for what he did. He deserved a significant ban as well. Had he done shit like that back in the late 70s or early 80s, and the referee done nothing, the next time he touched the ball a player like Souness would have snapped his fucking pig-man leg.
And yet again, following a United loss, we see Ferguson whining about the referees. If Marseille can get a result at Old Trafford I am buying a round for the whole fucking bar.
Well, I haven’t seen the highlights, but it looks like even neutrals (i.e. the BBC write-up) seem to think that United were on the wrong end of a couple of key decisions. But then, we were on the right end of one on Saturday so I find it hard to complain too much, and Ferguson basically accusing the ref of bias is getting very old.
Have to agree with villa re Rooney - his action was indefensible, quite literally.
As stated up thread, I have no dog in the fight - as a Carlisle fan, we’re not going to care too much what happens in the upper echlons of the Premier League. That said, for the first time in a while, I made a special effort to watch a Premier League game last night - this one between Chelsea and Man Utd - though I have watched Match of the Day for much of the season.
I think I tend to agree that, on balance, Chelsea got the rub of the green. Luiz probably should have been sent off. The penalty was a penalty though - even though it was a bit soft. If it had happened the other way around, SAF would have been gone crazy had it not been given.
And this is what annoys me the most about SAF: on Saturday, following the Rooney incident he said:
“the referee has made his decision and you have to respect that”.
This said in reference to the Rooney incident (as an aside, on this, the law is an ass - the idea that the ref did something, so no retrospective punishment can be given, is pretty stupid and should be taken off the books ASAP; surely it is better to get the correct punishment for instances of foul play rather than brush them under the carpet - and whether McCarthy blocked Rooney or not, throwing an elbow at someone’s head is not a proper response - retaliation is not justified).
Anyway, 3 fucking days later, SAF’s giving out about referee decisions. The difference? Yes, you guessed it, Manchester United are on the wrong end of it.
He’s a great manager but he should shut up. Not having to listen to his whining on the BBC is bloody great - maybe he can stop giving interviews to Sky and stop going to his press conferences too.
This is all very nice, except it ignores the fact that every single manager in the game does the exact same thing. Wenger does it. Mark Hughes does it. Mancini does it. The managers of Port Vale or Barnet do it. No doubt Gegg Abbot has at at some stage whined about a referee decision, but kept quiet about others that helped Carlisle. My old GAA club manager shouts about the refs full time.
Is it right? Wrong? I dont really care, I just find it funny that people get so worked up about SAF. He should shut up should he? Well then they all should shut up.
And if that guy hadn’t asked to buy my girlfriend a drink, I don’t think I would have hit him across the head with a pool cue and then glassed him.