I’m straining to remember a sarcastic Zoe post, and I swear I can’t. Lady’s a straight shooter.
Sorry it took so long to get back. Just when I start a pit thread, Comcast Internet lets me down.
I pitted you because you requested a thread be closed because it had become hateful. I didn’t see it as hateful.
In my OP I ranted on a couple other things. Is one of those other things what you want me to cop up to your not being the right person?
You certainly are the person who had the thread closed for being hateful.
Have you read your own thread title since you plashed it out on your keyboard? It CLEARLY indicates that you think I think people shouldn’t say ‘tranny’ ever, and that demonstrates that you didn’t even read the entire thread you’re Pitting me for, since I was the one who used it in the first place.
Zoe, thank you. I really don’t know what else to say, except that I don’t feel I deserve your kind words, but I’d like to live up to them more often.
Ah, I see. You use the word ‘tranny,’ Eve steps in to say the word is like ‘nigger’ or ‘cunt.’
You step in to agree,
that the word does have a hateful history and we should definitely stop using a word if someone, somewhere finds it offensive and the reasoning behind it being offensive seems to come down to “because they say so.”
Ok, you say,
Because I’ve not encountered it used that way. I also never actually demanded anyone substantiate the word’s offensiveness. I agreed with those who were surprised and confused as to its offensiveness.
Then Indygrrl & I dish on Alexis a little more, and you have the thread closed because it’s hateful. But you did seem to defend the idea we should stop using a word as soon as someone says they’re offended by it, and not question why. Am I wrong here?
So you’re saying you shouldn’t get pitted for closing the hateful thread. I should pit Eve for finding the word offensive? Eve should be here explaining why it’s like ‘nigger’ or ‘cunt.’
I formally apologize to you for making it seem like you said it was like ‘nigger’ or ‘cunt.’
I pitted you because you wanted a thread closed with no further discussion. A discussion I found reasonable and non hate-filled.
In this thread at least, discussion continues in a respectful way, and I’m glad that’s how it’s turned out.
To begin with, yes, I do think that if someone tells me something offends them, I shouldn’t do it anymore unless I have equally compelling reason to refuse. Why wouldn’t I? Who cares what their reason is? Why should they have to justify it at all? It’s just fucking polite to honor people’s requests if they’re reasonable, and it’s perfectly reasonable to use a different term when someone in your presence has asked you to, as Eve did. To me it has nothing to do with politics or identity, and everything to do with civility.
I also tend to get really, really irritated when people say things like “I’ve never heard of that, so it can’t be true”. It just seems incredibly closed-minded and frankly ignorant to me, though I’m not trying to throw punches at you here, just explaining. People acting like if they don’t know about it or it doesn’t make sense to them it must be wrong just drives me fucking batty. So the discussion over there was already pressing on my last nerve. Not everyone was doing that, you’re right, and it’s such a big pet peeve of mine that I probably projected it onto more people than were actually guilty of it.
What I found hateful and off-topic from my point was the questioning of whether Alexis is ‘really’ trans. I have explained why I think that behavior is hateful, even if the people doing it are not doing it because they feel hate, which is not what I meant to imply, and I absolutely do apologize if I didn’t make that clear enough. I was upset when I made the post requesting the closing and didn’t choose my words with care.
You were always free to start your own thread about whether Alexis is ‘really’ trans. That was my thread on a different topic, and the turn it took was not only off-topic, but on a topic that was the last one I wanted to be discussing. I do understand better now why you called me out in particular in the title, but I still feel that I don’t deserve this Pitting.
That’s part of our problem. If I happen to be talking about the elderly to my elderly neighbor and she tells me she finds the word offensive, then of course I’ll stop using it. Around her.
But on a message board like the Dope, you can’t just declare a word is offensive to a couple people and have the word declared offensive to all.
No problem. It was veering off-topic. Had it been closed for being off-topic, this thread would never have started. One of my pet-peeves is something I’ve said being declared hateful when I don’t understand why it’s hateful. That’s a strong word.
Wandering threads are a fact of life. The author of an OP asking their thread be closed because they don’t like where it’s going is generally considered bad form. Most people just ask the hijackers go elsewhere so the thread can get back on track.
'Course, if you feel the thread had run its course and had nowhere left to go that would be perfectly fine, but that’s not what you said.
I suppose I still haven’t made myself clear. It was not the off-topicness, but the content of the off-topicness. If you think people should no longer be allowed to have threads closed at their request, take it up with the mods, not me. I guess I can live with you thinking less of me for it, though I might cry a little bit. Sniff sniff. We were such good friends, too.
Also, I can tell you’re really heartbroken you didn’t get to continue that conversation by how you started your own thread to…oh wait.
Where did I say that?
So you think they should be allowed to, but looked down on for doing so? Isn’t that a little twisted?
Hell, they already are if the thread in question is in the Pit!
Are you just typing because you like the noise it makes? What the hell is your point, man?
Yeah, we do seem to have lost track a bit.
My point: asking a thread be closed is fine, unless the justification is simply “I don’t like where this is going”–especially if the thread is in the Pit. TPTB do not automatically close Pit threads just because the author didn’t get the reaction s/he intended.
The…thread wasn’t in the Pit? And…the mod already closed it? And…that wasn’t the justification? So…I still don’t know why you’re telling me this?
Lute, the original thread was in Cafe Society, not the pit.
I see Alexis modelled for the new Barbie Doll.
Ok, it was a joke, please be gentle with me.
Just sayin’ is all.
If it had been in the Pit, it would likely not have been closed so quickly.
Speaking as a <ahem> tranny myself, I agree with you, Ogre. I personally don’t find it offensive and call myself a tranny all the time. There was a debate in a transgender forum recently, and almsot everyone agreed they didn’t think the word was a big deal. Those who saw a basis for objection to it cited its use in porn exploitation.
Do I need to explain what’s wrong with porn exploitation? Using human beings like things instead of people, just to make a profit. Sometimes my kind turns to sex work when they can’t get regular jobs, because of prejudice. Behind all those tranny porn sites–and tranny prostitution–is a world of human tragedy and suffering.
What saves “tranny” from being as bad as “nigger” is that it’s more often used in everyday life as a casual term with no offense intended. The only problem with it is use in fetishist exploitation, but I just don’t feel it as being that bad.
If you want to talk about us with respect, and “transgender” is too long a word–because short and snappy is the American way–call us “trans” for short. You can substitute “trans” as an adjective anywhere you would use “tranny,” and frankly “trans” just sounds better. (My backpack is emblazoned with the word, coincidentally.)
However, “trans” can only be an adjective, not a noun. This is significant:when it’s a noun, it objectifies people by reducing a whole human being to a single attribute. But with “trans” as an adjective, you have to use a noun denoting a human being: a trans person. A trans woman. A trans gentleman. See? This lets us keep our humanity.