It’s still a shame that the first thing they did was “euthanize” the snake.
Fuck that. Chop the cocksucker up into pieces. Who the hell keeps a python as a pet anyway? Ugly fucking slithery reptiles.
May I have “Irrational Responses” for one thousand please, Alex…
Hey! Quit being so measured and reasonable! Applying years of first-hand experience - like that even matters on the Internet!
I know nothing about snakes, including constrictors. You and several Dopers that do have referred to how a boa bites and holds its prey while coiling. I find it darned frustrating that the coroners report doesn’t mention bite marks - present or conspicuously not present. Seems like a key data point, if not THE key data point once asphyxiation was established as cause of death. If I have missed some report that does mentioned them, sorry…
We are all frustrated by the lack of detail in the reports so far. Also rather surprised. The probable appearance of children killed by a python should have been horrific. That first bite at least, wherein a 95 pound reptile grabs then attempts to manipulate into killing position a struggling human at least half that weight using only teeth and leverage would be expected to produce significant bleeding. Subsequent bites, as in swallowing attempts, would produce additional bite marks but probably not copious bleeding since the victim is dead already. Asphyxiation would be the actual cause of death, but it would not look at all like somebody smothered by a pillow. Perhaps my considerable experience with snakes, including large constrictors (and including the species in question) is causing me to expect other people’s assessment of the situation to mirror my own. But really, it’s hard not to exclaim “Ray Charles could see they were killed by a python!”
the link didn’t work for me, so I went directly to kvoa.com to read it. Definitely worth reading.
Kinda like the Tawana Brawley thread. :o
It’s one person with Tucson Reptile Rescue saying big snakes rarely act like this. And that may indeed be true, but a potential explanation (the petting zoo thing) has already been offered. I don’t want to make it sound like I’m more sure about this than I am, because the police could turn around and say they don’t believe the petting shop owner and the evidence doesn’t point to the python killing the kids. But so far it sounds like it does.
Yep. Like CannyDan, I have handled all of the big constrictor species, and I have received defensive or “angry” bites from all but an anaconda. Those bites are bad, but the “I’m gonna constrict and eat this” bites are worse. I received one of those from a ball python when my hand smelled like rats and my hand was a bloody mess. If any of the reports mentioned anything about external injuries, this story would seem a lot more likely to me.
The petting zoo visit definitely suggests a good reason for the snake to attack, and I have no trouble believing that a python would attack a child whether the child smelled like rabbits or not. A larger rock python attacked and ate a 10-year old boy in South Africa 10 years ago. They attack to eat, and from the pictures I have seen of these children, one of them should have been eaten.
Regarding the speculation about how a big snake could fall through the ceiling, attack two boys and they don’t scream, and the adult male doesn’t hear any commotion at all: Makes me wonder if the adult was passed out drunk and didn’t hear anything for that reason. Not meaning to cast aspersions on the guy, who may be a complete teetotaler for all I know, but it could answer some questions.
Under that scenario, the snake could enter the room, the boys could either scream briefly at the first bite or scream for an hour and the adult doesn’t wake up. As for how it could continue on to the second boy, I don’t think it’s uncommon for kids that age to get so scared that they just freeze, cover their faces, cower in the corner and hope the scary thing goes away. That’s why firefighters find children hiding under the bed when the house is on fire.
Nothing but speculation, but fuck, what a horrible scenario… no matter what the truth turns out to be.
If it does turn out the be the snake, there’s more to the story.
Snakes are pre-programmed, they do a certain thing in a certain way- and this doesn’t really sound like what big constrictors do.
If they found the snake with one kid’s head in its mouth, and evidence of trying for hours to consume the other one, then maybe.
But two kills+no eating just isn’t how boas behave. They aren’t smart enough to go crazy. Maybe it’s a case of “mad snake disease”.
(I’m not a snake expert, but I used to hang out with a herpenthusiast who was also a biologist. I’ve captured venomous snakes under his direction.)
I remember seeing a story on TV, about a crazy woman who had a pet Gaboon Viper (possibly the most venomous snake). She had let the thing out of its cage, and it went under a chair. She reached under to retrieve her pet, and it bit her-delivering a deadly dose of venom. When the police broke in, they found her body in the bathroom…with a trail of blood (the venom contains an anti-coagulant, so yo belled to death from the eyes, nose, and mouth. Quite a rewarding relationship!:eek:
I’m not a big fan of large constrictors or venomous snakes as pets… but I think they’re a hell of a lot safer than many dog breeds. It won’t take much Googling to find dozens of articles in which dogs killed people, sometimes even their owners. If a dog had mistaken the two visiting boys for intruders and ripped them to shreds, would you be questioning why anyone would own something as dangerous as a dog?
The reality is that it takes a very large snake to see you as food. My 5-foot boa sounds big in feet, but it weighs 4.5 pounds - with no claws or long incisors. Since snakes don’t eat things larger than about a quarter of their body weight, even a child is not food to most snakes. And most snakes have no interest in attacking things that are too big for them to eat. The only person my snake ever bit was my wife, and that’s because she was holding a mouse by the tail.
As for the appeal of snakes… for one thing, they eat once a month and they don’t crave attention. You can go on vacation and not worry about them. They don’t poop every day or need walks. They don’t slobber all over your face. They don’t chew the furniture or claw up the curtains. When they shed, it’s in a single piece of skin that can be thrown out. They also have more “personality” than most people give them credit for, though I have to admit there’s not the level of interaction you get from dogs or cats. Plus, I’m one of those people who always feels hot. Wrapping a cool snake around my neck on a hot summer day is one of life’s simple pleasures.
But, again, I think people should apply a reasonable size limit. I think the biggest snake I’d recommend in a household with children would be something like a Columbian red tail, which tops out at around 10-12 feet and maybe 20-25 pounds. Rock pythons, Burmese pythons and anacondas all grow large enough to be a real threat to people.
“The boys were having a sleepover at a friend’s house.” Who’s the friend? The adult male? Or were there other children there? Was the attraction the snakes?
Those are my first questions.
And according to the article linked in the OP, this type can get much bigger than the legal limit.
The friend was the son of the pet shop owner. He was sleeping in another room.
There was a third kid in the apartment, though not in the bedroom (the owner’s son - he’s the friend the other two were visiting) who also did not wake up in time, allegedly. Whatever happened did not make enough noise to wake him.
True. I had forgotten that. Well, back to wondering how it could be possible…
Even if he had nothing to do with the deaths directly, he’s almost certain to be accused of negligence, so I would think he would want a lawyer in any case.
So… part of the ceiling collapsed, and no-one outside the room heard that either?