Escorted off a flight .....

If we were dealing with children or teens, you’d have a point. But an adult? I think not.

Let you vent, give you time to calm down? The crew is not your Mom, and adults don’t get time outs.

People get by being jerks and asses all the time, where the ones taking their abuse can’t be bothered to deal with them and just let it pass. So sooner or later someone, somewhere is going to push back, in some way.

And the ass invariably whines like a baby that they’ve been misused. And it always comes down to ‘well the service person is being too thin skinned, they should suck it up’. When, really, it’s the ass who should be sucking it up.

People are paying for transportation, not transportation and a therapist.

I can just picture a flight attendant yelling, ‘Suck it up your ass!’ :stuck_out_tongue:

I should point out that flight attendants are ‘service people’; but they’re not waiters and waitresses. Yes, they bring your food and drinks. They also give you those safety briefings everyone ignores. They are trained for emergencies so that they will be able to assist the passengers in the rare case of something going Very Badly. They help passengers comply with federal regulations the passengers know nothing of. They try to get people to wear seat belts when the seat belt light is on, so that in severe turbulence the passengers don’t get their necks snapped on the overhead. We passengers only see, or at least pay attention to, the ‘Coffee, tea, or milk?’ side.

I assume turning back to the gate is expensive and not undertaken lightly.

When my father was about to die, I let the flight attendant know why I was upset that the plane was delayed for hours on the tarmac. She brought me a free drink and was very solicitous through the wait and flight. When I had to switch my itinerary to get home after he died, I was put in first class. I attribute at least some of this consideration to not being unpleasant to people who had nothing to do with my hardships or frustration with having to fly in the first place.

I know a lot of people who don’t swear - and others who don’t swear much - and others who swear like sailors. Most people I know, however, can control their language for their audience. When you are talking to a stranger who has some amount of control over you (like a flight attendant, a police officer, a mortgage representative, someone interviewing you for a job, a teacher…) the default is “no swearing.” I’ve even had problems with “damn” in interviews.

My very religious conservative sister in law doesn’t swear, nor do my religious cousins - and I don’t swear around them - they’d probably tell you I don’t swear, but I take my language cues from the people around me.

Flight attendants are like umpires - you don’t question a bad call because they need the freedom to be able to make the bad call so they aren’t afraid of making it. It can be the difference between a pleasant flight, and being stuck in a metal tube at 30,000 feet with someone abusive to the staff AND other passengers - or violent.

Your friend can complain. He’ll get a “I’m sorry you were inconvenienced” from the airline and don’t expect anything else. Why would he beat his head against that wall.

The flight had been delayed… ok, I can get swearing at the delays. But why start swearing “at the situation” (obviously it had to be at the flight attendant because they heard it, even if it wasn’t aimed toward her personally) when pushing away from the gate?

Did he say “Finally we are getting THE FUCK out of here after all these FUCKING DELAYS from this GOD DAMN AIRLINE!”

If so, boot the bastard. Just because he didn’t say “fuck you!” at one of the airline attendants personally, does not excuse it.

That is pretty funny. Complaints on commercial airlines go nowhere unless it makes the news, and social media is overflowing with true tales of flight attendants on power trips.

Flight attendant is rude for no reason. No confrontation or backtalk. Man politely asks “Excuse me, ma’am, what’s your name?”. She tells him and he goes and sits quietly and reads his tablet. Next thing he knows, he’s being kicked off the flight.

And what he points out is exactly what is happening here "World Bias virtually guarantees that a large portion of people are going to believe I was in the wrong, since I did get kicked off the plane. It is much more comfortable to believe that I’m a raving lunatic and their own travel plans are safe than it is to believe that someone could get arbitrarily kicked off a plane for asking the flight attendant’s name.

Being a flight attendant doesn’t make you immune from being a bitch, an asshole or on a power trip, but it does pretty much guarantee that if you are a bitch or an asshole that you are going to be on one hell of a power trip.

So would you stand by and watch an innocent get tossed off the flight unjustly? Or would you interject and say something to someone?

If no one on the plane is stepping up to interject or defend this person than my bet is they earned it. When the whole plane think you deserved it and are glad to see the back of you, maybe it’s time to consider your own behaviour. Like an adult would.

You think air travel is operating too efficiently these days, and you want to slow it down?

When the third person tells you that you have a tail, you should look back & check.

How many would want to stay on a plane if as the pilot walked up the aisle he was cussing & ranting about the shit airline he had to work for?

Well, if he also looked like Kurt Russell, I’d probably look into their frequent flier programme.

Or maybe people are afraid to speak up, fearing they might get thrown off too.

“You said a naughty word, you’re outta here!

Seems a but harsh. If I was sat next to him I might make a small protest but would be worried Dame Power Trips of Overkill might throw me off too. I’m always as nice as pie with flight staff, hoping I’ll get extra beverages (it works, sometimes), and their job is pretty sucky.

That’s a good pointbut my impression was that it was done very quietly… I doubt many other passengers knew what was going on.

I do have a bit more to the story …

  1. It was the first flight of the morning and the airline delayed it the night before because the crew had got in late or something like that. I did ask why he didn’t check the flight status and he said he was supposed to get a notification by cell phone if there were problems. I would have checked online myself anyway but…

  2. The flight was delayed only an hour at first …they put everyone on the plane and then sat there for a while. Eventually they announced that they were waiting on a key member of the crew and would have to wait a bit longer. Part of the problem was that my friend had given up his bag thinking he still had time to retrieve it while getting off the flight and making the connection. He wouldn’t have done that if it was clear he would be pressed for time…he could have made sure he was one of the first in line so he could keep his bag with him before the overhead compartments filled up.

Airline pilot here (but not for United) …

Unlike my usual essay format, here are a series of disconnected thought-bites:

We (95+%) aren’t cops. A few folks are reserve cops or have cop-like attitudes. Many are former military officers. None are fond of anarchic or childish behavior. We’re selected and rewarded for being hyper-rational and hyper-mature. At least while at work.

We want to get where we’re scheduled to go as close to on time as we can. We are charged with the safety of everybody uppermost. We are aware that some passengers sometimes misbehave in non-dangerous ways. We’re aware that some flight attendants (hereafter “FA”) are better at escalating situations than calming them; at least on certain days under certain provocations. Other FAs, the vast majority, are truly amazing at sponging up negative energy & calming the un-calmable.

Drunks come in two kinds: get sleepy & get aggressive. Altitude & the closed-in stress of flight both exacerbate whichever tendency a person has. Drug users are similar if less predictable. Insane folks are wholly unpredictable. Anger management issues are far more common in the general populace than civilized folks might expect.

TSA is responsible for physical perimeter security. i.e. keeping bad guys & bad stuff outside of the sterile area. Period. Nationwide, TSA catches about 30 firearms in carryons every **week **and many dozen serious non-firearm weapons. See Blog | Transportation Security Administration for more interesting facts.

Any misbehavior in the airport or aboard an aircraft is not TSA jurisdiction. It falls to the local police on the ground and the FBI in flight. At a major hub airport the local PD arrests or escorts off premises about a dozen drunk / drugged / anger management cases per day. The US has roughly 20 hub airports.

Federal regulations and the airline’s contract of carriage require civilized behavior & compliance with crew members’ safety-related instructions. Failure to comply means no transportation need be provided.
We’re aware that true bad actors may use minor provocations to gauge the security tenor of the crew du jour. Or to learn about response protocols for use on some future attack. True bad actors are still targeting civil aviation and will be doing so for the foreseeable future.

Returning to the gate is not done lightly. It creates a whole cascade of bad consequences for us as individual workers as well as for all-but-one of our customers.

Captains make the decision. But since they can’t see the situation first hand, they have to rely on the input from the FA crew. Ideally getting input from more than one FA. FAs are trained in conflict resolution tactics & to make dispassionate decisions & reports. Which training often, but not always, works well. Their original & refresher training also includes specific information about folks bringing large outside stresses, e.g. traveling to a funeral, into the mix.

Worst case, bad guys on the ground can’t do much harm. Maybe punch a few noses or if they’re Jackie Chan, kill somebody. Absolute insane worst case we shut down and evacuate.

In the air the same situation can lead to the loss of a $100+ million aircraft, a billion dollars in liability, the death of a couple hundred people aboard the aircraft, and who-knows-what destroyed & killed on the ground. Whatever you do for a living, you probably don’t make decisions with consequences like this every day. We do. Conservative decision-making is highly desirable when the stakes are that large. We are strongly encouraged to not have a passenger problem still festering at takeoff. Either it’s adequately defused, or the passenger is removed before we launch.

As an industry we spend billions a year to shave another thousandth of a percentage point off the risk of an accident. And our customers demand that of us. Which we like too because we intend to retire *from *work, not die *at *work. To ignore a passenger-caused risk which is 10s or hundreds of times greater than that seems kinda shortsighted.

In the course of a typical work month my FAs defuse a dozen very angry passengers. And calm uncounted other annoyed or nervous ones. In the course of a year I refuse to carry about 1 passenger. In 25 years I have yet to return to the gate or divert to deal with an unruly passenger. But tomorrow may be the day.

While you are back there I am responsible for your life. I can kill you with a well-timed flick of the wrist. Or through neglect or inattention or sloppy decision-making. We work very hard to control all the controllable risks (e.g. mechanical failure, poor execution) and to mitigate the uncontrollable ones (e.g. weather). Human misbehavior whether due to ignorance, irrationality, or malice is a bigger wild card than either of the above. And as such deserves to be given a wider berth than does, say weather.

Fascinating blog link - thanks - last week 47 firearms were discovered in carry on bags, 36 were loaded and 10 had rounds CHAMBERED. Are people REALLY this stupid in 2014 to go through security with a loaded handgun in their carryon? (Obviously they are).

Which bit of him do you carry? :stuck_out_tongue:

What a great post LSLGuy. Thank you for sharing, and letting us know what a huge deal it is to go back to the gate and dislodge an unruly passenger, and how rare it is.

The OPs friend must have been truly a class act.

Yes, I should have mentioned that. I was thinking it.

In the helicopter, and only with a couple of people who know my sense of humour, I’ve keyed the intercom and said, ‘You know? I could kill us both right now.’ :smiley: