I also just realized that there was a safety problem with what he did…I didn’t notice it until I started thinking about what I would have done in this situation. I’d skip out for the 80 minutes or so that nobody was going to be watching me, I lived near the school and had several friends who lived in the same area.
But this isn’t even about honesty, is it? Wouldn’t you agree that an absolutely necessary part of a lie is some intention or expectation of deception? Since no one is being deceived here, then there’s no good lesson about honesty to be taught.
Actors, in the strictest sense, are liars by profession. Since they don’t intend to trick people, however, they’re not considered to be involved in an immoral profession. Saying something that isn’t true and lying are not one in the same.
I’m with Zebra.
The P.E. jerkwad is asking you to cover his butt. Tell him to cover it hisself or come up with something for the kids to do for the period.
Maybe you should write the Principal a note.
Varlos, the deception here is the notes are there so the gym teacher can deny responsibility for his students during that period, should he be questioned by his superiors. If there was nothing wrong with letting the students spend that time in the cafeteria, why didn’t he just take the class there? PE classes don’t have to be strictly physical activity, he could have given them some multiple choice quiz on nutrition from a health book and then discuss different foods that are served, in the cafeteria and elsewhere. He could have come up with something for them to do in the bleachers, even, maybe asked them to bring homework or something from other classes to work on, if he was incapable of coming up with something for them to do on short notice. That is what he should have done, and that is what he is EXPECTED to do.
The note is not to deceive the parents, or the students, or himself. The note is intended to deceive the people who make sure that teachers do their job. If it came up, he can show how several parents asked for the girls to be dismissed for that day, and since a good deal of his class was gone he decided it would be unfair to have a test or do whatever activity he had planned for that day.
Another thing to consider is that the teacher may not have said that exactly as it is being presented to you, your daughter may be bending the truth if not lying outright. You should ask him if he asked the class to have parents write false notes to get out of class that day. Even if it seems likely that he would do something like that (and gym teachers are the worst) you might want to make sure, anyway. Your daughter and friends may have decided that would be a good day to cut class, almost everybody did it in high school.
I apologise if I haven’t grasped all the rich detail here, but it seems to me that at the moment you only have Cat’s version of what the PE teacher actually said, and what options about notes he actually presented to the kids. There’s some room here for errors in the re-telling, if not actual invention. Just before we all roundly condemn the teacher for abdicating his responsibilities, I’d like to hear his version. You can call him and ask an open question that doesn’t pre-judge it either way: “What are the options available to Cat and the other kids for PE when there’s no ice?”.
Well, several people in this thread have suggested that I consider the possibility that The Cat was slanting what the teacher had asked for, or was otherwise obfuscating what was really going on. So I’ve been sitting here thinking about it.
- She’s never lied to us so far. When she says she’s going to be somewhere or be home at a certain time, she is. We don’t spend much time doing the parental song and dance with her that goes, “Where WERE you?”
- When I said I wouldn’t give her the note, she burst into tears. When the Better Half also said “No”, she again started to cry. If she’d already made up her mind to cut, or if this was something that she’d cooked up with her friends, I would think that she’d have been more philosophical about it, that alternatives would have immediately sprung to mind. She’s not a real devious person. I think she was weeping in chagrin at the thought of being the only one not hanging out in the cafeteria with her friends, which would mean that she would be honest enough to accept the fact that she was the only one without a note and so would go sit on the bleachers and not just cut the class.
- Her friend Allison, who is a senior, confirms that the teacher has done this before.
And yes, I will probably eventually call the school and discuss this whole thing with someone in charge, because reading the responses in this thread has helped clarify a few things for me, namely, that the teacher was perhaps more out of line than I initially thought. Maybe it’s time someone pulled him up short.
Varlos, I will confine myself to pointing out that I’m not training actors, I’m raising children. Children watch their parents to learn how to handle things. Children need to learn the Right Way how to do things first, before they can branch out and learn the “Creative Way” to do things. Case in point: table manners. Kids watch their folks to learn how to eat nicely. Later on, after they leave the nest, there’s plenty of time for them to learn how to Eat Creatively. In college. Far away. Where we don’t have to see them. 
And it is about honesty, Varlos. It is 100% about honesty. Here’s how you teach honesty to a child: you make it a habit, same as putting the cap back on the toothpaste. You do this by catching her in every single itty-bitty lie that she tells, and you punish her for it, somehow. “You told me you cleaned your closet, so we went to the mall, and now I see that you didn’t clean your closet after all.” Punishment ensues. Or, “You told me you didn’t have any homework, so I let you go to Toys R Us with Daddy, but now you’re sitting there doing homework?”
Eventually the kid figures out that Mom and Dad Know Everything, that it’s useless to lie to them. This comes in handy then, in later years, when the kid has car keys and a car, and it really is important to know where she’s going. If she’s learned the “habit” of honesty, then you don’t spend so much time worrying, and she’s less likely to put herself in danger, or in a situation where she can’t make a phone call and be “rescued”. “I can’t call my dad to come fix this flat tire, because they think I’m at Heather’s house, when actually I’m at the mall.”
So part of learning a habit as a child is watching your parents who have the same habit. If your parents have the habit of always putting the cap back on the toothpaste, eventually you get the hint. If your parents have the habit of honesty, then, eventually, so do you.
Addressing a few nuts and bolts:
Right, we’re agreeing here. The rule is there to help people, to make sure that kids are where they’re supposed to be, and that parents know where their kids are.
**
If the class HAD to be at the rink, why would he tell them the only alternative to bringing a note pleading a fake doctor’s appointment would be to sit on the bleachers in the gym? The whole point was that they WEREN’T going to the rink, the Civic Center was using the space for a fishing exposition, actually.
What I just said. Besides, it’s the P.E. class–they’re supposed to be in the gym in the first place. The gym is empty while they’re at the Civic Center, because they aren’t there.
Um, sorry, but that’s just silly. The school and its grounds have to be fully covered by insurance. How could it not be? They have football and basketball games and track meets–why would the insurance not cover athletics taking place in the parking lot?
Somehow I seriously doubt this. This is a “1,500 students, serious dress code, IDs to be worn around the neck on a lanyard at all times, outside doors locked during school hours” kind of high school. I can’t see the administration knowing about this and winking at it.
**
I know it may be difficult to grasp, but I’m not here to make sure she’s “comfortable”. I’m here to make sure she’s “safe”. 
And “safety” involves a lot more than simply making sure she fastens her seat belt and takes a vitamin every day.
DDG, I’m with you on this one. No note.
As I read this, I was thinking back to my own high school days, and thinking that yeah, I would’ve asked, no, begged my parents to do the same thing that Cat asked you to do. And I thought some more, and realized that my parents would have said “tough noogies. Deal.” Then they would have given me a list of 101 things to do while I was there, and not with all my friends (I learned very early on that the two most dangerous words I could ever speak in front of my parents were “I’m bored”). They would have done this for the very same reasons you did, too.
It’s up to us, as parents, to try and teach our kids the basics of morality. Sometimes we fail, but we have to try. Cat will understand this later. At the time, she may have been thinking that you were just a big doodyhead, but she’ll get it eventually. It’s not as if you just said “no.” You took the time to explain “no, and here’s why no.” My parents did the same thing with me, and more of it stuck with me than fell out the other ear. I’m not perfect by any stretch of the imagination. But I’m functional, and usually decent, because my parents were very much like you.
I could not agree with you more, DDG. Writing the note would have taught The Cat that it’s okay to circumvent principle in the name of convenience. She’ll be assaulted with that idea enough throughout her life that she doesn’t need her parents, who are supposed to be her moral polestar, teaching her that as well.
As to this, I’d think about what you want to accomplish here. If you narc on the teacher, it is entirely probable that it will color the way he treats The Cat in class. If he’s reprimanded, and this situation comes up again, do you want him singling her out in front of the class as the reason that everyone has to do busywork from the nutrition textbook instead of hanging out in the cafeteria? Remember, this is a gym teacher we’re talking about. You’ve already taught The Cat the relevant moral lesson, and you’re not going to get this guy fired. As shitty as it is, going to the administration about this may serve to do nothing more than make your daughter’s life more difficult, at least for as long as she’s still in this guy’s class.
Hmm – teach children to lie so that they can be a little more comfortable for 80 minutes or be called a moralistic fascist by VarlosZ.
I love it when the questions are easy.
Can I get a cool shoulder patch, too?
At my high school, we had “senior cut day.” Almost everybody cut that day, and most people had their parents call in an excuse for them. My mother refused to call in an excuse for me. She told me that she didn’t mind if I cut that day, but she wouldn’t lie for me. She said that she would not punish me for cutting, but if the school did, then I would have to take my knocks. (I did cut, and the school never called me on it. Yay.)
It was a good lesson.
I think you did the right thing, DDG. Yeah, there could be different interperetations/explanations of the teacher’s intentions and reasons, but there’s definitely something fishy going on there.
As a parent, I can’t help but being in agreement with the general moralistic attitude here, but does that mean no-one has ever called in sick without just reason at work? One of the reasons I’m self-employed, is my disgust at employers who feel justified in demanding doctors notes from employees whose absence is attributed to sickness. Teen-agers have forever, I’m sure, felt justified in pointing out the hypocricy of their parents.
No. A lie is a lie. You should, however, write to the school principal, telling the entire tale.
The Cat That Walks By Herself should go to school with a clipboard or other field-expedient lap desk, prepared to spend that 85 minutes (a handsome slug of time) working exceedingly hard on an assignment. If she doesn’t have one, give her one. Thus, she can be so preoccupied that the unappealing C. will not dream of interrupting her. The Cat could also equip herself with a suitably engrossing book.
Doing your own lying is your own business. Coercing someone else to lie for you is quite another – and definitely no cricket. Giving in to your child’s blackmail is just plain spineless – and hardly good for the child.
My employer (the Canadian federal government) gives unlimited sick leave – with a doctor’s certificate. Federal civil servants are not allowed to accumulate sick leave or use it for any other purpose. This seems eminently sensible to me, and I have a chronic lung disease that lays me out for at least four weeks of bronchitis (if not pneumonia) per year. Nothing like that great Canadian climate. I mean, what else would you use sick leave for?
Well, I have been known to use it for minor illnesses(upset stomach, bad cold) that don’t require a doctor visit.If my employer required a doctor’s note every time anyone was out sick (and some employers do),their health insurance premiums would skyrocket.Some people use it just to get a day off, but others are in situations where if a pipe breaks, you have to call in sick to wait for the plumber, because otherwise you can’t take off without prior notice.(My employer allows vacation leave to be taken with no notice in emergencies as a policy, and in practice allows it just because I feel like a day off, so I don’t need to lie).Writing a note to so a child can hang out in the cafeteria instead of sitting in the bleachers with her class doesn’t seem to me to be the equivalent of claiming to be sick to wait for the plumber.
I’ve had to use my own sick leave for my children’s illnesses. My employers do understand this, though, and make allowances for it (most of the people in my office have children). We accumulate sick hours during our pay periods (mine’s something like 3 or 4 hours per pay). We have a set number of unexcused sick occasions, and when we use them up, we have to provide a doctor’s note for every one after that. My employers, thank Goddess, will accept a note from a child’s pediatrician. Otherwise, it’s without pay.
I’ve been known to call in simply because I just didn’t feel like going in. Doesn’t happen much, but I’ve done it. But it was my decision to do so–no one coerced me, and I asked no one to lie for me. As an adult, it is my choice, and if there are consequences, I must deal with them. The Cat’s problem (if you want to call it that) was in asking her parents to lie for her, for something relatively trivial, and the coach’s winking-and-nodding acceptance. I mean, he’s telling the kids to ask their parents to lie. This is NOT cool. Not at all.
Ok, even though it’s too late to do anything different, I’m going to go out on a limb here, and disagree with everyone (except Fenris)! It seems to me, based on my complete lack of experience, that one of the greatest dangers in raising moral children is giving them the idea that doing The Right Thing is No Fun, and that you do it because “You’re Supposed To,” even though it will probably mean Enduring Great Suffering while Everyone Else is Having A Great Time. (I love writing like A.A. Milne.) Even though that is sometimes the case, it isn’t always, and you certainly don’t want the Cat forever to associate Morality with Pain. (Not that that ended up happening of course.)
I think you did a great job thinking this through so thoroughly and sticking to your principles, but here is a different way I think you could have handled it.
Even though you said it wouldn’t work, you should have written a completely honest note explaining the situation and asking the Cat to be excused to sit in the cafeteria. You would explain to the Cat (truthfully) that there is almost no chance that the coach will actually read all of the notes he’s expecting. He probably won’t even look at them. Tell the Cat that if he does read the note and tell her it isn’t good enough, that she should ask (with polite emarassment)if she can give the principal the note (which explains everything) so that he can decide what to do. Tell the Cat that in the unlikely event that the coach doesn’t back down (if the Cat really seems embarassed by the whole thing and not actually trying to cause trouble, which it sounds like she would), and she gets ant trouble from anyone, that she can call you, and that you will tell the school that either they will find every one of those students and make them sit in the bleachers, too (which they won’t because it would upset far more parents), or they will let the Cat sit with her friends. Explain to the Cat that you will make sure that she gets to sit with her friends in the cafeteria, even if you have to spend your lunch hour driving to the school and talking to principal yourself, (you won’t have to do this, but be prepared to anyway) but that you will not do anything that requires you to be dishonest.
This would demonstrate very clearly to the Cat two very important things: 1)You value honesty so much that you would rather inconvenience yourself than tell a lie, even a small one. 2)You value the Cat so much that you would rather inconvenience yourself than see her treated unfairly. On top of that, if the coach actually read the note, she would learn the immense pleasure of making people in superior positions squirm while being unreproachably virtuous, and how to stand up for herself politely. All in all, a good situation. You should write a thank you note to the coach for providing you with such a good “teachable moment” for the Cat!
(Just kidding!)
I would have written the note. It’s upsetting that the gym teacher is having kids write notes simply to cover his own ass, but that’s a separate issue. The note is to get Cat out of an empty class, not to show support for the teacher’s ploy.
If you’re taking a poll, count me in with Fenris and Alan Smithee . Otherwise the last mentioned poster articulated everything I was thinking on the issue 
.
- Tamerlane
**
Geez louise. I actually blanched as I read this. I felt all the color drain out of my face as I realized exactly what it was you were suggesting that my daughter do. :eek: She should say to the teacher, “Well, maybe I should go show this note to the principal…?” Jiminy cricket on a crutch. You’re suggesting my daughter should grab the teacher by the short hairs and squeeze? Jeezum crow.
So then I’m supposed to give her pointers in what to do if her clumsy attempt at blackmail doesn’t work?
And then I’m supposed to bail her out from her failed blackmail attempt by making a big unholy stink? How does making a big unholy stink help a shy teenager fit in better with her peer group? “My mom’s got bigger balls than anybody here, and we’ve got the media coverage to prove it…”
And then I’m supposed to wrap it all up by going to great lengths to ensure special treatment for MY child? “MY child is special, MY child shouldn’t have to sit on the bleachers…”
Most people dislike being blackmailed. Most high school principals dislike it, too.
…But that I will do whatever it takes to get special treatment for MY child?
No, it would demonstrate two other very important things: 1) I value “winning”, getting one-up on a teacher, so much that I would condone blackmailing a teacher and a high school principal, rather than tell a lie.
- I value the specialness of MY child so much that I would rather inconvenience myself than see her suffer 80 minutes of minor discomfort and boredom.
Um, and you think this is a good and useful thing for a child to learn? [look of polite inquiry] Stand her in good stead in later life, that sort of thing?
No, how to make a complete horse’s ass out of herself in front of her peer group.