Your wanting to live a stress-free life does not entitle you to steal. If you want less stress, don’t buy satellite services.
And remember…an apology that was issued because you demanded it is no apology at all.
I would be hesitant to cash this check unless you called and first confirmed that it is not an error. I would want a supervisor or higher up to confirm that yes they actually meant to send you a check for more than what you paid. What would stop them from figuring out later that they sent you a check in error, and sending you a bill for the same amount? This can and does happen, and if they take you to court or even just dock your credit score because of it, will it be worth it then? I have had instances where I was given a much smaller credit than that on a phone bill in error ($10, I didn’t realize it was an error at the time), and they figured it out months later and took it back by upping my next bill.
Sending the check back makes sure you are done with them forever.
Huh?
Ethically it’s wrong to keep the money? That is completely debatable. That’s why I started the thread. I’m looking for both sides of the argument; I’m looking for people to tell me WHY something is unethical. I’ve gotten two clear sides:
Most of what I’m reading here is, “Don’t do it because it’s wrong!” Who determines this? Who determines that my wasted time and stress isn’t worth anything at all?
Other points I’ve read assert that “it’s your money for all your stress – keep it.”
We’re adults here. Unless you’ve put a fair degree of thought behind what you’re posting, you can kindly save your "you’re a thief if you keep it"s. How about philosophy behind what makes some ethical or unethical?
I’m wondering why you started this thread, Dudley. I count ten people who responded that it’s not ethical for you to keep the money. I count two or three who said it’s O.K. to keep the money. You argued with all the people who gave answers you didn’t want to hear, and ended up deciding to keep the money if they fail to meet some arbitrary time limit on the phone. If you know they don’t owe you any money, why would you call them to ask a question you already know the answer to? I agree with the others - you’re just looking for someone to give the answer you already wanted to hear.
Again, totally debatable.
Maybe they do owe me the money.
Just because you were stressed out by the experience, doesn’t mean you’re allowed to keep the money.
As Kalhoun already pointed out, if you took the case to court and you were awarded money for your stress/suffering, that would be fine. Unlikely, but fine. You don’t get to decide how much your own wasted time and stress is worth. (Kind of a coincidence that the amount of time you decided your wasted time was worth is the exact same amount that they’ve given you, no?)
Cash it and if it really bothers you, give it to Jerry’s kids or something.
That’s not what Kalhoun posted. It was something about satellite service equating to higher stress levels. I was asking for clarification on that.
I can’t argue with this logic.
Hey, now, that’s an idea. I’ll just endorse it and give it to the Salvation Army as a charity.
I’ll tell you who doesn’t determine that - you. You are not entitled to decide for yourself that a company owes you $135 because they “stressed” you. I get stressed all the time dealing with businesses; that doesn’t mean I’m entitled to take money from them. If I got money every time I feel stress, I’d be a millionaire. If you win a court case and are awarded $135, then that money is yours. Otherwise, you have no moral, legal, or ethical ground to stand on.
But far more people gave the other answer. You seem to be selecting only the responses you want to hear.
I dealt with a similar issue when I had jury duty. The plaintiff was asking for X dollars of damages for a certain transgression. The jury decided that the transgression had not occured. But one woman in the jury wanted to award the money to the plaintiff anyway because of some unrelated issue. Basically she was arguing that he should get the money because they were mean to him in some way completely unrelated to the issue at hand. It took us the longest time to patiently explain to her that it doesn’t work that way.
It’s a philosophy almost as old as time itself: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
How? You said you paid them nothing.
Did you agree with the service provider on a penalty they would pay should they fail to provide the service as contracted for? What if the amount they sent you was $2500? Would you arbitrarily figure that THAT was a fair amount?
Why is it unethical? Because companies don’t give people substantial sums of money because they “stressed” them. A court of law would determine if you’ve suffered damages and deserve to be compensated. It’s not up to you.
You certainly infer a whole lot. At no point did I assert anything like you’ve described. I’m questioning the legal and ethics positions of the thread – from both sides, not just the ones “I want to hear.” Morally, I’m pretty damn sure I’m entitled to benefit from one of their mistakes. God knows I’ve been on the wrong side of plenty of them.
Your posts are snippy and irritating, and you’re not into discourse. You’re just into telling people the truth as you see it. Please, unless you want to bounce ideas around about the philosophy, save your soapboxing. I’m not interested in being called a thief (I haven’t stolen a thing) and I’m not interested in empty declarations as to what is wrong and right.
Only if you play fast-and-loose with the definition of “ethical.” The money does not belong to you, and you concede that: “I haven’t sent them a dime, so I have no idea how I actually received a credit.” So the operative ethical principal is that it is wrong to keep things that belong to other people.
On a macro level, we as a society do. On a micro level, the people to whom you’ve directed the question do. On both levels, you will receive a pretty clear response that it is unethical to appropriate goods, services, or money that don’t belong to you. It’s thievery.
Your time and stress may have value. No one has said that they are necessarily worthless. But the $135 you received BY MISTAKE has no relation to the value of your inconvenience. And even if there is an attempt made to value your inconvenience, it is not your right to unilaterally value it and to impose a penalty that YOU decide on by appropriating money you know was sent to you by mistake.
What makes stealing unethical is the inherent dishonesty of it and the fact that it fundamentally undermines the human trust that allows our society to function. If we all went around stealing from each other, then we would not be able to maintain even the minimum level of trust necessary for commerce to function, since neither side would provide goods or service to the other without payment first, out of fear the goods or services would be stolen. Moreover, it is dishonorable to exploit someone else’s mistake for your own gain, allowing themselves to unknowingly do something to their detriment simply because it is to your benefit. That creates a real harm to the other party, and that also violates the social contract that we will not harm each other.
They don’t owe you the money, and there’s nothing debatable about it. A debt that is owed is fixed by both parties, or is provable by one party. You want to TAKE the $135 as a penalty that YOU have assessed or as the value of your inconvenience, against decided unilaterally by you alone. But you have no legal entitlement to the money and, indeed, if you keep it, you are a thief. Period.
You seem to be trying to create some legal or ethical smoke-and-mirrors where none exists. You would be hard-pressed to come up with a more clear-cut example of unethical (and illegal) conduct than someone keeping money they are not entitled to. It’s not a hard question; you only want it to be.
Exactly.
You said you didn’t pay them a dime. How do you figure they owe you money?
Call them and ask them what the credit is for.
No. If it were $2500, I’d consider that too much of an error. Your example gives food for thought. What is the difference between $2500 and $135? Not a whole lot, and if I’d not keep the $2500, then why should I keep the $135?
This is good by the way. I appreciate your humoring my request for dialogue.
They don’t give people substantial sums of money even if they ruined their lives. This certainly doesn’t make it okay, does it?
While you’re correct, and of course this is another subject altogether, but I wonder if I sued the satellite company for say, $2500, in pain and suffering (due to stress) in small claims how they’d handle it. Would they send a lawyer who’s getting paid that for the court trip to defend them? Or would they just agree to pay me? Either way, they’re out $2500. What do you think?
I used to work for a bookstore, and part of my duties was to make a deposit on Saturdays, and obtain cash for the tills. Once, after returning to the store, I realized they gave me $500.00 more then they were supposed to. At the time, I was only earning $16,000.00 per year.
I called them up to tell them about the error, and was told “you have to return it.” I have to drive back to the bank to make up for their error? It seemed to me to be incredibly rude (I expected gratitude; instead, I got a demand).
Nevertheless, I did return the money. My reasoning was that the person who made the error was going to be terribly stressed/flustered/possibly fired for the mistake, and I wouldn’t want that to happen to me.
Is this relevant to your situation? I guess not, since my situation depended on sympathy for an individual person, not a large, faceless corporation that spit out a computerized bill. Still, I’m happy I did what I did, since it helped me to sleep at night. I suggest you do whatever you need to do to feel good about you, too.
After thinking about this…
I’d rather not, thanks. I’m trying to not waste much time with them by trying to correct another one of their mistake. I especially don’t want to waste time telling someone the whole issue only to be transferred to someone to waste time telling them the whole issue only to be transferred to someone to waste time telling them the whole issue only to be transferred to someone to waste time telling them the whole issue only to be transferred to someone to waste time telling them the whole issue only to be transferred to someone to waste time telling them the whole issue.
What I’ll do is this. I’ll write them another letter. I’ll send it registered mail. After verifying my financial records, I’ll spell out my not understanding the origin of this credit. I’ll ask for written justification as to why this credit does not exist. I’ll give them 60 days from the date of the check.
If I don’t get a response and written justification, I’m cashing it.