I finally found a little information on the Votes, a small ethnic group now almost extinct from the Ladoga area, but does anybody know any more about them? And are the Ruthenians merely Ukrainians? Or is there something else to them as a people? I can’t find out whether the Russian Moldavia is really old Moldavia, which with Wallachia comprised Romania, or just something Russian that is up against real Moldavia that took its name? Finally, there is the problem of Bessarabia: ethnic group or merely a geographic area?
Votes I’ve never heard of. But I do recall that about a century ago there was some agitation for local independence (for the St. Petersburg region) – Ingria or Ingermanland this area was called. Maybe these Votes are Ingrians? But there’s a lot of small Finno-Ugric ethnic groups in the far Russian north, also.
Ruthenians inhabit “Transcarpathian Ukraine” now, but when it was part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire (and later, Slovakia) it was just Ruthenia. Their language is quite close to Ukrainian, but I think it’s more likely to be considered a dialect of Ukrainian because it’s now politically a part of that country (just like Ukrainian was regarded as “Little Russian” in the days of the czars).
The historical Moldavia is split between the Republic of Moldavia (the country that was until recently a bit of the U.S.S.R.) and Romania (Romanian Moldavia being the eastern half of the country of Romania – the western half being Wallachia). There’s no ethnic difference between Moldavia and the rest of Romania.
Bessarabia is just an old geographic designation for (more or less) what later become the (historical) province of Moldavia.
Here’s a little something on the Votes…
And here’s a little something on the Ruthenians.
(Although I don’t know if either of these say more than you already know.)
The name Moldavia or Moldova historically referred to the area on both sides of the Dniester, i.e., both the northeastern part of Romania and the present Republic of Moldova. From the Britannica:
Actually, the region which was originally known as Bessarabia is now part of Ukraine. I don’t believe there is a distinct ethnic group or language known as “Bessarabian”. The majority of Moldovans are basically Romanians (culturally and linguistically speaking), although they have voted against unifying with Romania. That “small strip of territory east of the Dniester River”–the Trans-Dniester Region–has a large population of Slavs (Russians and Ukrainians) who have sought independence or autonomy. There’s also a group of Christian Turkic-speaking people called the Gagauz, who have an autonomous region known as Gaguazia in the southern part of the country. (Here’s a map of Moldova.)
Actually, when I saw the subject for this thread, I had this picture of some Ruthenian-American political machine. “Well, looks like Daley’s got the Ruthenian vote sewed up again…”
Most of Bessarabia is now Moldavia. A smaller bit is Ukrainian. Here’s a link.
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I said that Moldavia/Moldova “historically referred to the area on both sides of the Dniester”; that isn’t correct. I was thinking the Dniester forms the border between Romania and the Republic of Moldova; actually, the Dniester forms the northeastern limit of Moldova (except for, as already mentioned, a small “Trans-Dniester” region east of the river). It’s the Prut River which forms the border between Romania and Moldova, and historic Moldavia lies on both sides of the Prut, not the Dniester.
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Apparently the region originally referred to as Bessarabia is the coastal portion along the Black Sea. The name was later transferred to the entire region included in what is now the Republic of Moldova. That’s what I was referring to when I said that the “the region which was originally known as Bessarabia is now part of Ukraine”. That gets discussed some on this page:
Are the Votes related to the fine people of Chad, in Africa?
::d&r::
I am of Ruthenian (aka galician, aka trans-carpathia, aka “little russia”, etc) heritage. My folks used to run part of that small “nation” in the 19th century- left when the AH empire started making it less “semi-soveriegn”. Ruthenias are not simply Ukranians by any means. The nation has been passed around like a doobie at a dorm in the 60’s. Part of Poland, then Austria, then Checkoslovakia, then independent for one day, then one of Hitlers proctorates got it, then the USSR, and now Ukrania.
Or perhaps they are mortal enemies, like the Serbs and Croats or the Hutus and the Tutsis.