And you can’t say, “The machine is broken again”? Your coworkers would be uncomfortable if you said, “The machine is broken again”?
Well, it’s not so much polite as it is not rude. I worded that poorly. I appologize.
Age is just a number. If they’re tired, it would depend on how tired, I suppose. I guess it doesn’t really come up. I mean, how can you usually tell if someone is tired? Not exhausted or about to fall over (in which case offering one’s seat would be a good idea), but simply tired? If, when in a group of friends where most are sitting, a non-sitting friend said, “Hey, do you mind if I sit? I’ve been on my feet all day” I’d probably say, “Sure, no problem.” But if they didn’t ask, and if they weren’t obviously very tired, then it wouldn’t be considered rude not to give them your seat.
Hey, I find it bizarre that people willingly watch Adam Sandler movies. 
Everybody’s different.
Not necessarily, no. I could express that idea in any number of ways. However, I have found that swearing every now and then seems to foster a sense of “he’s one of us” amongst my coworkers. I don’t have to swear all the time, of course. I could very well express myself in the way you suggest. But if I never swore, I’d come across as a bit high-and-mighty.
Where did you learn your manners? Anyone who considers an act of kindness to be rude was not raised in any society I’ve ever heard of. And that includes primitive societies. I’ve certainly never seen entire groups of people subscribe to the “kindness is rude” theory. And I don’t believe you know any women who agree with your take on the subject. I believe you’re trying to justify your unwillingness to conform with basic rules of civility by making shit up.
There was a reason it was polite for the man to walk on the outside. These days, it’s more likely for etiquette to demand that the man walk on the inside so he is the one confronted by panhandlers (assuming you’re in an area with aggressive panhandlers and they are fairly consistent in occupying the building side of the sidewalk). The specifics of etiquette may change, but the fundamental goal of preventing someone else’s discomfort remain.
In terms of etiquette, everybody was wrong but the old man, but the old lady gets a pass. It is not only rude, but IMO incredibly assholish, to sit there and watch someone struggle and do nothing. Even if you couldn’t lift the bag down the stairs by yourself, you could have offered to see if you and the older man could lift it down together. If the two of you together couldn’t have managed it, you would at least have tried. If your pain was bearable enough for you to get on and off the bus unassisted, it was bearable enough for you to at least make an attempt to help this guy out. At the very least, you could have explained your situation and asked someone else if they could help the gentleman. I’m assuming your vocal cords aren’t disabled, but if so, I’m sure you carry a pen and paper to communicate with people. The other people who sat and did nothing were no better than you, but they were no worse, either. Being disabled doesn’t give you an exemption from basic courtesy and consideration; you’re all exactly equally culpable.
It was technically very rude of the lady to comment on everyone else’s rudeness, but I tend to make exceptions in the face of incredible assholishness. Forgetting oneself under such circumstances is entirely understandable. It’s probably just as well she was a lady; a woman with my temperament would most likely have been making unflattering, profane speculations about the parentage and personal habits of the other folks on the bus, loudly and repeatedly.
Nobody can convince someone else that they should inconvenience themselves; you either think your ease is more important than the comfort and well-being of others or you don’t, and no amount of argument will ever change your mind. By all means, stand by your opinion that you have no obligation to put yourself out for anybody. Just don’t be surprised if the people who have to interact with you stand by their opinion that you’re a lazy, self-centered oaf.
From other people I’ve observed.
You’re presupposing that it is an act of kindness, which is exactly what is at issue here.
Nor have I. Nor has anyone in this thread (that I can tell) supported such a statement or idea. All that has happened is that people have disagreed on what is kind and what is rude.
I think that this is the rudest thing I’ve read in this entire thread. I’m sorry that you’ve lived such a limited life that you can’t even imagine that other people might have experiences different from your own.
I suppose kindness can be a relative thing; however, I would imagine that in our society, knowing the rules of etiquette (which you obviously do, however much you may disagree with them), offering someone your seat could never be mistaken for anything but an act of kindness. It seems like it would take a whole lot of creative thinking and self-justification to arrive at the conclusion that having someone offer you their seat, or offering someone your seat, is impolite or unkind.
Ah, that must be your sense of etiquette coming through.
Ah, and here you miss the point again. Etiquette on my part has nothing to do with my personal opinions of your behavior. I would still extend all possible courtesy toward you unless you did something that went beyond oafish and crossed over into harmful.
However, I am free to think that you are boorish, lazy, and selfish in the privacy of my head. And I am also free to sever any and all social/political/economic bonds that might link us now or in the future.
Like I said in my earlier post, it just seems like any challenge to your lack of consideration is met with ‘so? what’s in it for me?’ or ‘you’re not the boss of me!’
I’m just glad that most people don’t have this attitude- life would be a lot less pleasant than it is if we were all so self-centered.
I sort of understand where you’re coming from, but as you’ve admitted to pretentious speech, I don’t see how doing a 180’ with your speech pattern will make you ‘one of the guys.’ Perhaps you just need to work on speaking plainly- most people I know value an honest person more than someone that fakes a persona to fit in. I don’t know what level of education you have/aspire to, but pretentious speech is seldom a sign of anything more than someone that likes the sound of their voice.
And btw- for your ‘age is just a number’ comment…don’t know that there are rolleyes big enough. Do you have parents? I’m only 25, and I can clearly see the difference in average physical well-being between myself and my father. Do you really believe that, on average, an older person would benefit from a seat more than a someone in their prime? Just sounds like rationalization to keep your seat.
The thing is, you and I don’t share a society, except in the most general of senses. We may live in the same country. We may live in the same state. We might even live in the same town. That in no way means we have identical cultures.
As for knowing “the” rules of ettiquette, I’ve heard many things said to be proper or improper. I would hardly say that I know all or even most such rules. I could read books on ettiquette day and night for the rest of my life and not know them all.
I don’t think I understand what you’re saying here. Obviously, altering my speech isn’t going to completely change who I am. However, I’ve found that altering my speech appears to help me fit in and make my coworkers more comfortable around me.
I don’t know that it matters, but I aspire to as much education as I can achieve. Formally, I have a BS in Computer Science and not enough money to go further formally. I rarely talk, so it’s not the sound of my own voice that I like to hear - it is instead the rhythms of well-crafted speech. It’s the same reason I like to read good books.
I indeed have parents. It would be hard to be without them.
On average? Well, on average a male would be more likely to have a physically demanding job, therefore we should give up our seats to males more often than females. Or we can just take into account as much information as we have - not age, since that in itself is not relevant, but overall physical condition, etc.
Oh bull.
You share a culture to the extent that you understand what signals are being sent by polite actions.
Unless you are claiming that you have no idea of the meaning of the words “please” or “thank you”, or could give no guess as to why a man might offer his seat to a lady on a bus, or any of the other common acts considered courteous.
You may not choose to use those rules to convey what they are meant to convey, but you have been acculturated well enough to know what your choice entails.
The whole purpose of etiquette is for communication with people you don’t know personally, but who understand the rules. The culture doesn’t have to be indentical, and not knowing every one of the rules is no excuse for pretending you don’t understand the rest of them.
Regards,
Shodan
What, pray tell, would this difference be? Besides a means for you to rationalize poor behavior as not being your fault?
Now- is there any group of people that you’d be willing to give up your seat for? Or do you always weigh the situation like you did in your post? Do you always end up with the conclusion that you are the most deserving of the seat you occupy?
As for the ‘no common culture’ thing…well, there are a multitude of subcultures within any given group, but I’d say that lack of an ‘identical’ culture somehow invalidates the theory of etiquette seems to be silly. Even if you don’t know the specific rules for every situation, you can still negotiate your way through the day without people thinking that you are an insensitive clod. As I teach my students- when in doubt, how would you like to be treated?
I read over your response to me, and upon reflection, I do understand your point about language and ‘code-switching’ between your normal mode of speech and your peer group’s. If I cam across as snarky, it is only because some of the rest of your comments put my back up. Still, I concede that you have a point on that issue.
No matter how “general” a society we happen to share, the rules of etiquette are mutually intelligible to both of us. You clearly know some of them, otherwise you wouldn’t have cited any in your OP. You have simply made the choice not to live by those rules. You’ve successfully thumbed your nose at society. Well, congratulations. So, what’s the next act?
I think people have been a bit unfair on boofy_bloke if he really could not have helped the man off the bus then he should not feel that he needed to do so. If for instance he tried despite his inability and harmed himself or the elderly man or damaged the mans belongings then he would have made a bad situation worse and probably upset/embarissed the elderly man. (I have been in a similar situation, in extreme pain but not showing it physically, and not been able to help someone. If I had tried to help the chance of me having to suddenly let go of their luggage due to pain would risk damaging their luggage or worse). This is one of those situations where etiquette fails, I would ask out loud if anyone could help the gentleman, saying that I would help if I could but am currently unable to do so. The elderly gentleman probably should have tried to avoid carying so much as to be a large burdon to himself (not necessarily possible, but sometimes people are their own worst problem), the lady if she wasn’t physically inconvinienced in helping the elderly man should have just done so without comment. Why did she wait for someone else to help a fellow human when she could do so quite easily herself (I don’t beleive the excuse that someone else looks like they could do so easier is really a valid one). Any one else in a position to help and capable of doing so should have helped, or if incapable of helping (like boufy) should have ensured that others arround could see that the elderly man needed help. I believe you should help others even if at an inconvinience to yourself and I do, but if you are incapable of helping then you are not required offer something you do not have.
P.S. If the old lady had commented on my lack of helping someone in a similar situation I would have quite truthfuly (but admitedly rudely) told her that “I would have loved to have been able to help the gentleman, but my current physical handicap made it impossible to do so, I see you were perfectly capable to give assistance, and I thank you for helping him when I could not.”