Pardon Me, Ladies: Let's Talk Manners

In My Humble Opinion
1

I’ve always considered myself a Southern gentleman, or at least did, until a recent incident. Now I need your guidance. While in Richmond, I was sitting with several (Southern) men in a hotel lobby when a female acquaintance entered the lobby and walked toward us. All of the men stood, except me, and I didn’t even notice for about 10 seconds.

I wish to improve my manners. Problem is, I suppose I dread behaving in a way that brings too much attention to me. (I am 100% confident at work, but rather reserved socially.) I therefore ask for your opinions.

  1. Would you think it odd if I were to stand when you entered a room or when you rose from/returned to the dinner table? (I am talking about a social event, not just business.)

  2. Now, what if I stood while other men in the room/table are not standing–would this look foolish to you?

  3. Would you think it odd if I were not only to open your car door when you are getting in, but also when you are getting out?

Am I self-conscious? Yes. But good manners mean a lot to me and I therefore ask for your guidance.

2

Well, I’m a Yankee, but…

  1. If it were just the two of us - say, we’d arranged to meet somewhere, or were on a date - and you arose when I entered, I’d be surprised because I’m not used to such treatment, but I wouldn’t think it odd.

  2. If you were the only one standing, I would think you’d look foolish. Do as the Romans do, y’know.

  3. Again, I’d be surprised but not think it odd. Personally, I would probably have opened the door before you reached it to open it for me, but if for any reason I didn’t, and you opened it for me, that’d be ok.

3

There are two kinds of social events - formal and informal.

I’d say a good rule of thumb to distinguish the two is whether or not the woman is wearing jeans/t-shirt or a dress. If she’s wearing a dress (or skirt or suit) then the occassion is more formal and should be treated accordingly.

For instance, if I’m out and about, gardening or biking or working on my car or whatever in jeans/t-shirt type clothes it would feel awkward (to me, at least) to have a man standing when I enter a room, opening doors for me, etc. When I’m engine grease to the elbows I’m just not strutting my feminine side.

On the other hand, if I’m “dressy” then its wonderful to have a man stand when I enter a room, open doors for me, take my coat when I enter a building, or otherwise use “old fashioned” manners.

Likewise - if you’re in a fine restaurant, stand when a woman returns to a table. But if you’re in McDonald’s stay seated.

So consider the context. And certainly, if every other man in the room stands up when a woman enters do the same. But it’s never wrong to err on the side of “too courteous” if you’re not sure.

4

1-3. No.

But I was raised in that type of enviroment and grew used to it. It doesn’t happen much anymore because most of the people I know now never had those kinds of manners in their enviroment but I appreciate it when it does.

By enviroment I don’t mean an economic class.

5

Great answers: context counts. Though I’m thoroughly charmed when a man stands even in a fast food joint. Graceful manners are always appropriate. If people don’t recoil in disgust from folks belching, picking their teeth and tossing trash on the floor in a taco emporium what’s to worry about by being courteous?

Btw, the rising thing isn’t limited by sex, depending on the situation. When being introduced, youth stands to meet age. A lot of women are very sloppy about this, and it’s sad. It’s painful to watch earnest younger women making the mistake in mistake in formal or busines situations. (Aside: I’ve found Southerners to be the real exception, living up to their reputation for excellent manners.)

The sloppy modern shortcut of “women just sit and receive homage” is wrong, wrong, wrong. I strongly disagree with asssumptions behind “age before beauty” but it’s a useful cue. Youth gives precendence to age–and that includes women. I’ve watched bright, ambitious young women unintentionally label themselves very badly this way.

Scenario: Older couple approaches young woman; man introduces wife–young woman stays seated. Young woman doesn’t bother with even perfunctory conversation with older woman, doesn’t offer her own seat if seating is limited, grabs first from passing trays, pushes through doorway first, sits down before her at table, ignores her again in conversation, etc.

First and foremost it’s RUDE–and therefore damning. It’s RUDE to blow off other people and women don’t have any exemptions or free passes. The best definition I’ve ever read for a lady fits equally well to a feminist: one passionately concerned with the rights of people.

Sorry, Country Squire, didn’t mean to hijack your excellent topic. I just wish more women seemed to be as aware of their responsiblities. It’s nothing more than respect made public, so to speak. It really isn’t hard at all and can make life so much warmer and friendlier.

Now officially a relic,
Veb

6

Odd, yes, because you don’t see it very much anymore. But odd in a good way, and very much appreciated. This is behavior that I wish to encourage. Stand. (BTW, this is much more true about social events than business ones. In business, who stands for whom is more a matter of rank.)

Not at all. In fact, if you do it naturally - as though it were instinct, it’s the other guys who look foolish (if you make a production of it - then it looks staged, and somewhat suspicious, but still not foolish.)

Same as question one.

7

On standing in business situations, are you the “host” of the meeting or gathering? If you are the host, then by all means stand. If the meeting is a formal one, with a new client, let’s say, it’s probably a good idea for the host to stand for men and women. Instead of just standing up, stand up to shake hands, show the person where to put their coat, or where to get coffee, make introductions, whatever.

If you are not the host, then I would suggest following the herd.

The car door thing always works better if the man isn’t begging the woman to wait for him to run around the car. If she’s ready to get out when the car stops, she will probably open her door and get out. But, if she is taking a moment to get her pocketbook and wrap together, then you have time to get to her door and open it. The idea is for it to look natural. If you see her going for the door handle, do not say “wait! stop!” – that’s cute when people are on their first formal date for the prom or something, but not in the adult world.

8

Hey, manners are never, ever a bad thing! I cannot emphasize that enough!!

I am incredibly impressed when people use manners. I’ll admit I’m not perfect but I am very concerned about being courteous and demonstrating proper etiquette. It is a sign of respect, I think.

9

Why, yes they most certainly can be a bad thing. Miss Manners writes frequently on this topic. She says that etiquette is a way to make people feel comfortable in social situations, it is an aid to social interaction, not a rigid code of behavior that cannot be transgressed. Many people use manners to make others feel inferior, or to just poke fun at them. This is a misapplication of manners, and she writes about it often.

10

Hey, I’m a rude L.A. boy, I never even heard of some of this stuff! But I do stand when greeting/taking leave of people (man or woman), and even then I’m the oddball.

When riding the bus, I often will offer my seat to an older (not middle-aged) person, or someone with a lot of packages and/or babies in their arms – unless I’m the one with a lot of packages, or I’m just plain tired. I guess I think of age and situation first, and gender hardly at all.

Maybe I’ll hold the door open for somebody if I’m already passing through it.

I know, my manners suck.

11

IMHO, you should always stand when meeting a new person. Also, if you’re waiting for someone, you stand up when they arrive.

12

look, people my age (18-25) have other priorities.

but being nicely brought up (can you believe i know how to CURTSY!!), i stand to meet people, i shake hands with them, i give up my seat on buses, and i call anyone much older than me Mr, Mrs or Miss until otherwise instructed.

if i’m meeting the guys in a pub, no, i don’t want them standing up, no i don’t want doors opened (i might want to be carried home later, but that’s another story) and i want to buy them a drink without hassle.

however, if i am at a formal event (they are in DJs, i’m in a formal dress) none of the above applies. if i’m dressed like a lady, goddam treat me like one. pull out my chair, pay for my drink, give me your arm when we walk, open doors and stand when i do.

thankfully most irish men have lovely manners when you apply these rules.

13

  1. Probably pleasantly surprised. :slight_smile:

  2. If you were my partner or sitting next to me, I wouldn’t think it were odd. But if you were someone across the table that I didn’t know, I might think it a little strange.

  3. A bit iffy … if I had to get my bag or coat (thus already being delayed) I’d appreciate having my door opened. But if it would be quicker and easier for me to do it myself, then I’d prefer to open my own door.

14

Yes, ma’am. I promise I won’t forget.

Chas E., I agree that some people do use manners as an ostentatious display, but my interest is really in treating people as cordially and courteously as possible–in a way that shows my high regard for them, regardless of their backgrounds, positions, or life opportunities.

BTW, I am not suggesting that I open the car door of a businesswoman; some might intepret this as demeaning or hostile. Instead, I am referring to social situations.

TVeblenWell said about standing for older people and when people enter a room.

15

I wouldn’t think you are odd, and would be impressed.
It is quite refreshing to see manners in practice.

Mr. L does stand when I leave or enter the room, opens doors, gives me his arm, makes sure I am on the inside when we are walking, says "sir"and “ma’am” and gives up his seat. A Southern Gentleman. I expect it as I was raised the same way.

16

I wouldn’t find it odd. I would find it absolutely charming. It’s not something that I am used to, but I have had men stand for me on occasions, and it’s nice.

Again, no. I have been places where some people stand and some don’t. Usually, I notice that the other men will take their cue from the one standing and do the same.

Not at all. This is something else that I am not used to, but I have had it happen (usually if my husband and I are on a “date”). I think it’s very polite and gentlemanly.

(Is “gentlemanly” a word? If it isn’t, it should be.)

17

Manners are meant to make people feel welcome and comfortable. I agree that the situation can make a difference. Also any gesture should not be done in a show off flourish, or so awkwardly that I’m embarrassed. If your attention looks pained, forced or too out of place - ie having to run ahead of me to open a door or trying to hold heavy double doors open, I’d rather not have it. It’s a talent to be effortlessly gracious. Nice to see some people are trying.