This might be better suited to Great Debates. I’m not sure I’m even gonna get much response. Ireland goes to the polls soon to vote on whether to accept the Lisbon Treaty.
The government and other major parties want the Irish people to vote Yes but there is also a significant No campaign. No campaigners include Anti-EU business interests, democracy advocates, anti-globalisation folks, and those who are pissed off that the treaty seems unintelligible and that the implications of its acceptance haven’t been properly thought out nor presented to the people.
As the Lisbon Treaty has an effect on citizens of every EU country I’d like to know what if any opinion EU-dopers have on it.
I took a close look at it back when it was called the constitution but I have not kept myself in touch with the latest happenings. I hear it is all mostly the same, though.
I am in favor of a unified Europe, in principle, and I trust the lawmakers know what they are doing, so I am quite happy it is finally (probably) being accepted.
I live in Estonia, by the way.
I’m somewhat in favour of a unified Europe. Ireland has definitely benefited from being a member of the union. However it is strange that only Irish voters are to be asked about something that will be implemented Europe-wide. We had a second Nice referendum after we voted no to the first one so even if the Irish public votes no on this it’ll still pass somehow.
The problem is, in the UK, any election or referendum at any level above Parish Council, on any topic is treated by the electorate as a national referendum on the national government. A referendum offering free blow-jobs and holidays for all just might pass but short of that it would be Kick Gordon Time.
Think its about time, I’m in favour of virtually everything it posits.
But then I’m the most Europhile person I know.
This is a bit odd, but every country can pick its own way to ratify the treaty. Most already did when it was still the constitution, which is when Holland & France rejected it. Now, in the Netherlands, there won’t be a new referendum because the government’s afraid that we’ll vote against it again … cancel that, it’s because it’s no longer a constitution, of course, silly me.
I voted against it at the time, and I would do so again. I like European unification just fine, and international cooperation when necessary, but I resent the ongoing loss of sovereignty that is part & parcel of the European project. The Dutch constitution is a fine document that guarantees all the rights I need, why re-stipulate them in another document?
Full disclosure part: Irish born British citizen, have lived 75%+ of my life here (the upshot of the British citizen part is that I don’t get to vote in constitutional referendums, so bear that in mind)
I find the fact that the election adverts urging me to vote Yes have the names of the bodies who are paying for the adverts on them. Those urging me to vote no do not.
Our future is with Europe. The scaremongering about faceless people in Brussels running our lives is rubbish. I don’t know any of the civil servants who run my life from Dublin as it stands and I get to vote for my MEP just like I get to vote for my TDs (given the state of Irish politics I rather prefer the European version to be honest).
The sovereignty argument holds little water for me either. For a small state like Ireland a place at the negotiating table is as much as we can reasonably expect. If we vote to isolate ourselves we simply end up on the outside looking in at decisions that effect us made with no input whatsoever. Larger states have correspondingly more to lose obviously, but I think even for them the tangible benefits outweigh the alleged losses. I see no reason that my rights would be worse off in a European context (and several signs that I would in fact be better off)
That said the ‘wrong answer, do it again’ of the nice referendum made my blood boil and those responsible should have been removed from office. There’s no point having a referendum if you’re only looking for a rubber stamp.
Against. When it was the EU constitution, it read like a political manifesto, not a constitution. It’s instructive to compare it with the American constitution. And as presented on that website, it’s difficult to keep cross-referencing it with the other legislation and treaties. Like counsel wolf, I too object to the ‘wrong answer, do it again’ attitude.
I do, though, agree that ecu should be replaced by euro.
But I’m a Brit, so have no vote.