Evangelical Atheists Have A God Complex

The BBQ Pit
161

Every time I think your argument can’t get any more vapid, you surprise me. This is just painfully stupid of you.

In response to the (correct) statement that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, you trotted out faith. When told that faith is not proof, you wriggle and act as if you’ve somehow proved anybody wrong. This is twilight zone level shit right here.

A-fucking-gain.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
Faith is the only ‘proof’ offered.
Faith is not evidence.
Thus, there is no evidence for the extraordinary claim.
Thus, the null hypothesis is not refuted.
QED

Are you really this clueless? First, it’s religionS, not religion. Do you always need to shift the ground to some stupid strawman in order to have a fighting chance? And in answer to your silly question:

“There are many Gods.”
“There is only one God.”

Do I really need to continue?

Again, a strawman. Do you have some mental block against intellectual honesty?

Just to clear this up for you, since you seem to be having problems: your analogy, sucked. It could not possibly prove what you were trying to prove. It was stupid.

What renders your premise false, as opposed to what renders your analogy stupid, is that even a cursory glance over history would tell you that all religions do not have different terms for the same thing.

What kind of cowardly fucking hypocritical dodge is that shit?
You are the one who keeps casting personal attacks against those who believe differently than you. You are intollerant and a bigot. You’re posting on the SDMB, and claiming victory because people are making logical refutations of your arguments? Are you for real???

Bull
You have done so again and again and again, ascribing all sorts of negative intentions to atheists who ~gasp~ are uppity enough to voice their opinions on a message board dedicated largely to debate and discussion.

More projection? You’re the one who has resorted to personal attacks, others have stuck to logic.

Jeez… this is the Dope. Were you looking for the Adult Swim message board or something? It’s kinda like what happens every time anybody posts a thread and people respond to it: people disagree. But usually those who’re disagreed with don’t pitch hissy fits.

Because extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof!!!
Can you finally understand this? And don’t you dare use your damn “Well, faith is common” dodge again.

162

Oh? Let’s see it.

This evidence sounds a lot like the logical equivalent of Irreducible Complexity. ID proponents say they know it’s designed because it’s so complex; you say you know it’s not designed because it doesn’t have to be. This is not evidence.

Absense of evidence is not evidence of absense.

Show me the mathematical proof of this, please.

I’m not arguing. I’m pointing out that you’re an Evangelical Atheist. That’s all. Your responses do a great job in proving me correct, too.

163

I’m sorry, FinnAgain, but I’m afraid that you cannot convert me to the wonderful world of Atheism as much as I know you would like this.

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… That’s it? :eek: Nothing else you want to say there? If you disagree that “faith in God” is a claim, tell me what the claim is. Faith in God is ordinary, we’re all agreed about that. “I have faith in God” does not require any extraordinary evidence, as it’s something most people have. The existence of God, however, is a proposition that does require that kind of evidence. So far, you haven’t given any.

The lack of proof doesn’t mean we can’t have a logical discussion about the subject. If you don’t want to have one, cool, but if you’re going to be in one, then you’re expected to, you know, be logical about it. Your belief in something does not make it factual evidence.

You’re not honestly saying that no single religion contradicts any other religion, are you? For crying out loud, there are thousands of different kinds of Christianity. You’re being obtuse. Tell me how you could believe, for example, in Yahweh and in the Greek pantheon at the same time.

This is the same as “you can’t prove there’s no god either, so the two are equivalent as articles of faith.”

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Which makes you not just wrong but foolishly, laughably, stupidly wrong.

You don’t even know the definition of the word irrational. And out of your militant ignorance you have the nerve to say that someone who (correctly!!!) points out that a belief not based on reason is irrational… is illogical?

You are truly uniquely dense for someone who posts to this message board.
You’ve already said that faith is the very antithesis of factual proof. Reason is based on facts. Thus, if you’re not basing an idea on facts, it is not rational. That which is not rational, is irrational.

Jesus.
It’s like spoonfeeding someone without a mouth.

Okay, fuck this, gloves come off.

You are a fucking liar. You have, many, many times in this thread make personal attacks on atheists for making logical arguments against yours. Personal attacks, you liar. I have not. I have argued the logic, solely. You have, continually and without remorse, engaged in mindreading and tried to make up reasons why atheists say certain things, even when real live atheists have said the exact opposite. Most of those debating in this thread have attacked beliefs you have attacked people. You are a lying janus faced asshole.

166

He’s not trying, man. Your claim about everybody wanting converts is also wrong. That’s getting to be a long list…

167

Fuck yourself sideways with a rusty crowbar you smarmy piece of shit. You engaged in a debate on the SDMB and you’re now acting like a lying hypocritical cowardly motherfucker when people have the nerve to disagree with you on logical grounds.

I am done treating you with respect. You have, again and again and again personally insulted people, myself included, and then played the ‘wounded martyr’ card when challenged on facts. Fuck you.

168

If someone has faith, that’s good enough for me. Since I cannot disprove their views, and they cannot prove their views, I feel that faith is enough.

I believe that people come to their own conclusions and find things that work for them. I believe that no one path is better than another. I don’t know what else to tell you. I also don’t care if you believe me or not. I didn’t bring up my beliefs until I was asked - unlike the Evangelical Atheists that I pitted. They wear their views like a badge of honor making it quite obvious to all how they feel. No different than the fundies, in my estimation.

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You’ve wandered onto the SDMB, where people debate their views. Although why you would do such a thing when you’ve obviously got no interest in the Dope , at all, is beyond me. You want to have the atheists all hiding in the closet as if it’s somehow a shameful belief and just discussing it on the Dope is somehow ‘evangelical’. Don’t lie and say you don’t. You’re just ‘fine’ with atheists as long as they’re not uppity enough to actually debate on a public message board dedicated to debate. Fucking bigot.

If you want a message board where nobody will disagree with you on logical grounds, go to some fucking Fluffy Bunny website and stop bothering us.

You’re no fucking Doper.

170

Oh, I am just riling him up. He’s like my Evangelical Atheist lapdog. I push his buttons and he froths on cue.

Anyway, none of this even matters. The issue is not what I believe and how contradicted it might be. I’m allowed my contradictions and frankly, unless I am a) trying to force them upon you or b) claiming that I have all the answers and everyone else is wrong, who gives a fuck?

The issue is that Evangelical Atheists love pointing out how contradicted and illogical and wrong everyone who dares have faith in anything that cannot be plotted on a graph is, just as fundies love pointing out how everyone who disagrees with them is hellbound. The fact that a discussion on the beliefs of the Evangelical Atheists was somehow turned into a discussion of my beliefs is telling.

We’ve had several pages of dialogue and the only thing that has happened is I feel even more secure in the premise of my OP. You guys sure do care a lot about what other people think - even people who have zero desire to “indoctrinate” you. Hell, I only gave my personal viewpoint when asked and I have zero desire to expound upon it more.

And that was my whole poiint. When you’re spending inertia railing against 4th grade Sunday Schoolers and Unitarian Universalist Deists, maybe - just maybe - you are indeed Evangelic about your Atheism.

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I had suspected that’s what you were doing, but making that accusation is against the rules.

Glad you admitted it.

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It is when there is no evidence that something is even possible or neccessary. Occam’s Razor in action.

I’m not a physicist. It’s a well known example of improbable things which never actually happen.

How ? You appear to be raving incoherently, not proving anything about anybody.

So you honestly believe Aztec style mass human sacrifice is just as good a lifestyle as the Peace Corp ? You admit to being either a lunatic or a monster ?

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*Some formatting mine.

Well John. It seems that you’ve busted me and that I am an evangelical atheist. :stuck_out_tongue: Although I’m not nearly as vicious as you seem to believe. If someone says “God bless you” when I sneeze, I take it in the spirit it was given and say “Thanks.” As I said in my forst post, I admire you for trying to prevent others from legislating their beliefs. That said, there don’t seem to be enough John_Stamoses to make much difference. I suppose I am 'evangelical" because I consider it a duty to try to avoid some of the horrors that have happened in the past, quite a few of which were directly fomented by religion.

As far as the 4th grader going out to kill people, of course not. I’d be amazed if anyone thinks that. However, that 4th grader is going to grow up and if he’s exposed enough to religious ideas he’s going to actually believe them. After that, there’s no telling what he might do. He’s been spoon-fed irrational beliefs in supernatural beings who have certain requirements and commands and who promise to reward you (after you’re safely dead) if you do what you’re told. In the past and present, one of the traditional duties of the faithful has been to “convert the heathen” one way or another. Has something changed? Did I miss the memo? :stuck_out_tongue:

While we’re on the subject of the 4th graders (and younger) attending Sunday school and learning religion. I wonder how long religion would last if people weren’t exposed to it until their late teens or early 20’s. My own suspicion is that religion would die out in a single generation. What do you think? If you agree, does this not argue that the only means of propagating religion is to catch children before they have learned critical thinking skills?
My own belief is that religion started as myths or beliefs to explain natural phenomena. The problem is that we no longer need the myths. We know* what makes the thunder, we can make it in a lab if we want. We know how to generally avoid being struck by lightening as well, and it doesn’t involve propitiating some inseen deity.

I admit I don’t know anything about Deism, never actually heard of it until now. If you believe that God just kicked things off and then walked away and doesn’t care anymore, then what’s the point? He isn’t going to do anything for you in this life and I have troubles believing there is a next.

As far as your “slippery slope” comment and saying that my belief that religious people may do something horrible because God told them to is “telling”, I’m not sure I understand you.
Religious people have and do perform horrible acts in the belief that their God will reward them for doing so. I believe that point is in fact “telling.” I’m honestly not following the “slippery slope” comment. Maybe I’m just dense this morning. :smack:

Regards, (and kudos on the good OP)

Testy

174

Is pulling your chain a little bit against the rules as well? If so, i apologize.

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This assumes that it isn’t “necessary.” I have no idea what is “necessary” or not and I suspect that you don’t either.

Well, if it’s possible, I suspect that you jump and test it. I don’t see how having religious faith is akin to jumping off a cliff, but maybe you can tell me the relationship?

Human sacrifice? Wow, nice strawman. No, actually, I believe I was on record that forcing one’s religious views on others was uncool. Killing them seems to be an extension of that.

However, the fact that you once against adapt an extreme view of religious feelings to make a point is noted. You do that a lot. Were you anally violated by a cruifix-wielding Nun in Sunday School or something?

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So John, you start off by riling against people for being arrogant and calling belief in a god silly.
Over the course of the debate all you have had to retreat to the position that all you can base religion on is that you have “faith” and by your own admission that this is irrational.

What was your problem again?

177

Of course I do. God is not necessary to explain anything; is that too complex a thought for you ?

Both are fundamentally irrational of course; have you actually paid any attention ? Oh, and wishing death on me is real classy.

Saying “I believe that no one path is better than another” takes you off the record, as that includes human sacrifice. Not to mention slavery, genocide, cannibalism, and every other possible bad behavior.

No, I read history and the news.

He’s a blithering idiot, that’s his problem.

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And they produced Adam Weishaupt and Robesspierre (sp?), not the most ardent defenders for Rome (tho Weishaupt in his latter years was reconciled to the Church).

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Except Miller made it quite clear that his defense of you was based on the sole definition out of six that was non-religious. So, which is it? Miller made the best points, or you are referring to atheists as religious evangelicals? Because you can’t have it both ways. (Reads rest of thread) Oh wait. Maybe you think you can.

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Better Dopers than I have already explained this issue, and yet goat haters keep coming back for more. Well, I will try and put a new spin on it.

Do atheists generally go around saying that there is not a god, without provocation? No, generally they go on with their lives without mentioning the topic. When the topic is breached, it is generally in reaction to people handing out tracks on the street. When that happens, what god is the street preacher talking about? Lugh? The Generic Deist god? Johann?

No, they are talking about the god popular in that country. When the atheist replies that there is no god, they are talking about the same god that the preacher is addressing.

Now, can an atheist disprove the deist’s god? No, they have no need to. However, they can disprove the god of the preacher, based on the written-down claims made about said god.