Damn 60 second rule, would have avoided that simul-post with DDG and Manda (who continues to irritate me by saying exactly what I want to say, but ten times better).
Having read the thread in question, I’d say you ought to be thanking Spiritus for that first class piece of homeschooling he gave you. Yeah, it hurt, but as someone famous probably said*, the painful lessons are the most important ones. It’s Great Debates. If you don’t know your shit, you’re going to get called on it. And considering the tone of your first post in that thread, you got a pretty gentle treatment. Probably because Spiritus doesn’t have an emotional investment in the issue. I’d hate to see his reaction if he’d decided to go with homeschooling himself.
Also, the part where you said (bolding mine):
You might want to rethink and/or rewrite that bit, because it honestly makes you sound like an incredibly vile person, which you probably aren’t. And if you are, it’s really not the kind of thing you want a lot of other people to know.
Is this supposed to matter to somebody? I haven’t attacked your history on the SDMB. I have attackesd your bullshit prejudices, your smug sense of intellectual accomplishment, your ridiculously poor reasoning skills, and your complete inability to distinguish a relevant point from an irrelevant emotional appeal.
Here’s a hint: the above was an irrelevant emotional appeal.
Unpopular? Was someone taking a poll? You posted an offensive and unsupported assertion that homeschooling was the most selfish choice possible. I disagreed with your position. I would have attacked the reasons for your position, but you didn’t give any so I chose to demonstrate the unalloyed vacuity of your post.
Since you still characterize my critique as “uncalled for”, I can only assume that you still cling to the offensive generalization that prompted it. Since you still haven’t posted anything remotely resembling support for that position, I can only assume that you cling to it out of ignorant prejudice.
Gues what – posting ignorant prejudice on this board is pretty much a certain call for a harsh critique. I would be surprised that your “years here at the SDMB” hadn’t taught you that, if you had demonstrated a learning curve that couldn’t be drawn with a straight edge.
No, you wouldn’t.
You obviously don’t.
Holy shit-for-brains, Batman. This one does surprise me. I do not agree that homeschooling is as selfish as it gets!! Did you understand it that time? How fucking clueless do you have to be to read my responses to you and not somehow feret out that hidden truth. I think your thesis was complete, unmitigated, prejudiced bullshit. Does repetition help? Is twice enough? Do you maybe have a homeschooled friend who could read it to you and explain the big words? I DO NOT AGREE WITH YOUR POINT! (Thanks erl. Let’s hope you’re right using CAPS does help.)
:rolleyes:
No. I responded in great detail to every point that you raised. In fact, I think I will issue another challenge: find a single point that you raised on your first post which I did not respond to. That should be easy, right, after all I just said “you’re not good enough and left it at that.” It is not my fault that your post was so stunningly incompetent that you offered not a single salient point to defend an unsupportable and offensive thesis. That fault is yours. It appears to be part of a collective.
BTW – my “attack on you” never said that you were not good enough. It said your argument wasn’t good enough. It wasn’t. It still isn’t. The effort you spend trying to redeem it does nothing but stain you with he association.
It wasn’t “out of line for GD”. Offensive and poorly reasoned posts appear all the time in GD. They are often closely followed by other posts which point out the flawed reasoning and egregious errors they contain.
This is not about other people. It is not my job to police every post on the board searching for poorly supported arguments. Like evreyone else, I respond to posts that capture my attention for one reason or another. In your case, the arrogant contempt of your thesis coupled with the utter vapidity of your argument did the trick. None of the other posters managed to hit that particular trifecta.
If you have a problem with their anecdotes or arguments I suggest you take it up with them. This is between you and me. I’ll thank you to not try and muddy the waters by dragging in innocent bystanders.
Yes. It was.
If you could pull your head out from your wounded feelings for a few seconds you might be able to see that. Perhaps you can find a hint in the fact that nobody, not even you, has tried to rebut any of the criticisms I made in my first response to you. You have simply tried to excuse them by whining that you didn’t know somebody might subject a post in GD to critical examination.
Well I did. It failed.
Then I suggest you try a new standard. I find ignorant prejudice quite a bit lower than feeble humor. I suspect that I am not alone in that (Carrot Top excepted, of course).
Yes, that is certainly the clearest reading of statements like: I am a commie for God’s sake. I don’t expect people to agree with me. and Some would say my political leanings make me a lost cause, and I fully understand their view. With those people I respectfully disagree and we go on with our lives. I guess I mistook you for one of those people.
Sure – no hint of a claim that people (and myself in particular) migt disagree with you just for your political views. Nothing but a clear and reasoned discussion of how your political philosophy supports a blanket condemnation of homeschooling as selfish. Right. :rolleyes:
Then again, that does seem to be about par for your dialectical style.
Well, I did disect it. I don’t recall seeing much of that humulity, though. Let me see:[ul]
[li]Despite my school’s almost complete lack of resources, and indeed, it’s lack of talent at educating, I managed to get a first-class education.[/li][li]I am now my first (and indeed, only) choice college, and I realized yesterday that I have a darn good chance of graduating with honors (woo-hoo!).[/li][li]Sure, it took a little more work, and a heck of a lot more creativity than if I had the perfect education handed to me[/ul][/li]To be fair, you did say, **But, hey! My views don’t matter! ** I’m pretty sure you did not mean that to be evaluated literally, though. More’s the pity.
Yes. Your third post actually had some ideas of substance. Those ideas did not, of course, lend any support to your incendiary initial thesis, but they were not purely fatuous. I responded accordingly.
I have to ask, though, why are you posting this oh-so-objective and not-at-all-self-serving summary of our exchange? The link to the thread is posted in the OP. Don’t you think people can read it and form their own conclusions? I could understand if you were trying to actually address in detail my critique of your posts, but so far you have done little but whine “Mundi was mean to me!”.
Well, you obviously either did not read or did not understand the arguments in that thread. It had nothing to so with the puling petulance you have chosen to voice.
Yes, opinions which included a number of charges against me, none of which you have seen fit to substantiate with evidence beyond your bruised ego and your hurt feelings.
Then I hope that the understanding you have demonstrated here is displayed equally prominently in your studies. The plunge in your GPA should nicely alleviate any concerns I have about any institution which would graduate you with honors.
My argument was both. Since you never got around to actually presenting any support for “Madam Sven’s Thesis on homeschooling”, I had little choice but to concentrate on the logic (well, lack of logic) behind what you did post.
The fact that you still consider the logical underpinnings of an argument as “form” not “content” serves only to strengthen the hope I mentioned above. The content of an argument is more than just a position statement. Agreeing or disagreeing with a position statement does not imply agreement or dissent with the full content of an argument. Ever wonder why Supreme Court Justices sometimes write concurring opinions?
This is a lie.
What’s more, it is a lie that is so absurdly easy to disprove I cannot imagine what reason would impel somebody to post it. Of course, I have yet to see any evidence that reason lies behind anything that you post. You cannot face up to the fact that you said something very stupid, and very stupidly, in a public place. You cannot rebut the arguments against you, so you wrap yourself in a blanket of wounded emotion and fantasies of persecution. Since you are unable to justify your position intellectually, you resort to slandering the person who pointed out the obvious.
Most theses are not so utterly devoid of substance, logic, or focus. Your post earned every drop of condescension and sarcasm with which it was met. And if your definition of “self-important” equates to “feels entitled to criticize blatant bullshit on the SDMB” then I will accept the title happily.
I’m not one of your professor’s. I have no interest in grading your schoolwork. You submitted a post to a public message board. Remember? It happened when you clicked the mouse-thingy over the little box that said “submit”.
I decline to go out of my way to soothe your fragile ego. If you want feedback on your term paper, post it to the board. If anyone is interested enough, they may read and respond.
I took no shot which I could not back up. The fact that you have no answer for them does not make them cheap.
As long as we are on the subject of your utter lack of substantative response: I notice that you have not taken me up on the challenge to find a moderator who agrees with you that my response to your post crossed the line into personal insult. Of course, I notice that you didn’t respond to any other salient point in our dispute, either. I suppose in your twisted abomination of logic that makes me a coward, right?
This is sad. If you hadn’t gone out of your way to call me into the PIT I would feel sorry for you.
[sup]1[/sup][sub]Disproof by contradiction (ask a friend to explain that to you, even sven).[/sub]
Damnit Manda Jo, stop being so articulate and reasonable in the PIT. You’re making the rest of us look bad.
One quibble, though:
In GD we were two people involved in a civilized debate. Here I am responding to accusations of cowardice, bullying, intellectual dishonesty, and meanness of spirit.
You, however, remain perfectly civilized. As always.
Does it count as homeschooling if I just read a lot in my spare time? Can I get a degree for that? Much cheaper…
At any rate…
:shrug: I do what I can. Even if my tack fails you, I noticed the bolding and punctuation were added for extra effect.
Ah, I’ve got quite a few tricks to share with those interested in The Way. Come with me, Joshu…
Yeah, well, not quite the same. But to be fair, it was the pit and it did involve SM in some way… but, well. (Gosh, is this guilt I feel?) Final statement: the object of the pit thread was SM’s understanding. In the end, however, I shot off my own foot for easier placement in my mouth.
Are you people taking fucking notes from me? I have said the exact same thing and was as absolutely wrong.
Manda Jo, I can’t even say “fuck off” to posts like that, even if this is the pit.
This post was brought to you by the following gorgeous words used in SM’s post, with sometimes devestating effect: unalloyed vacuity, salient, egregious, vapidity (see vacuity), trifecta, dialectical, incendiary, puling petulance
[sub]any spelling mistakes are compliments of copy and paste[/sub]
Okay, I am drunk now, and that might make my posting job a bit easier.
And I am damn sick of defending myself.
Alright, I made a stupid, inflammatory statment. It reflected my true beliefs, unfair and perhaps vile as they may be. I did not have a good way of backing up that statement, or really any other statements I made.
And Spiritus Mundi was a complete prick about it.
And so now I apologize, on my knees, for daring to post. Perhaps I am not ready to commit myself to the cause of fighting ignorance. Perhaps I should resign myself to the Brittany Spears messege board. Would that make the world a better place?
I want to congradulate you, Spiritus Mundi, for making a little girl cry. I wish you a long life and I hope you can continue doing such a useful service for the SDMB.
even sven
Since you are drunk, I shall grant you the courtesy of not replying to this post. If the sentiments remain unmodified tomorrow, I will assume they reflect your honest position.
erl
I am in awe at your Emperor Nortoon credentials. I cannot wait to tip a beer with a man so close to the throne of America.
Come on now, sven, let’s not take this as ultimately personal.
I read the thread with some interest myself as I had always considered homeschooling my child, should Eris decide a female would want to have one with me. Or, better yet, should the female herself decide, but let’s not dawdle on this point. The entire opening of that thread was devoted to two things: unsupported attacks on homeschooling supporters and primaflora’s retaliation at the unsupported nature of such attacks. You might note the exchanges between prima and drum god, whose name inspires many puns that I will leave for my own amusement.
sparkleegirl mentions, “It seems rather ridiculous to make broad generalizations as many of the previous posters have done,” right after SM’s post.
Having a few episodes with SM myself in the amazingly short time I’ve been here I can assure you that his post was both in true form and exceedingly not a personal attack. You followed his post with, “I’m sorry that my post wasn’t good enough for you.” He was sorry too, and systematically laid a path for you to follow to amend it. (hey, you didn’t get all F’s!)
Depends on how much you rag on her while you’re there.
At any rate, having reread his initial response for the thousandth time, I will note that the primary problem with your post wasn’t even that you rattled off opinion–as is so common in GD–but that you made a claim, “Homeschooling is as selfish as it gets.” This is a super-strong claim, and given the nature of your opinion on homeschooling, inflammitory.
Interestingly enough my upbringing was somewhat similar to yours (poverty level, but not ethnic blending, unfortunately). Funny that we would have such different opinions on the matter.
On a final note… anyone who likes punk rock can’t be all bad. Drink up.
I to feel that Posting While Drunk is a mistake we all have made and that it would be unkind to take it too seriously. I do hope that when you sober up you will seriously consider whether or not you think of yourself as an adult or as a little girl.
Gee that’s a tough one! Man… I can’t find a response to that which is worthy of it.
Although you might wanna do a check of how many homeschooled kids are at colleges like MIT. Some of them very young which is probably a reflection of the fact that many many profoundly gifted kids are homeschooled through sheer desperation of the parents.
I’m one of the people you called selfish because I homeschooled my kid instead of donating my time to a group of kids. You didn’t do any research into what kind of involvement a homeschooling family might have with their community - you just asserted that because we don’t get involved with schools we were selfish.
Actually I’m so irked by your ill thought out position and your silly political posturing that if I continue this post I’m gonna go rabid. There’s many many reasons for homeschooling most of them valid. I’m certainly not wealthy and raising my kid behind a white picket fence. I’m not a fundamentalist. I’m a parent desperately doing the best I possibly can for a child who is really struggling. Kicking me in the teeth might make you feel superior but what goes around comes around and maybe one day if you have kids, you might get an insight into the roads less travelled. OTOH you might just sacrifice your kids to politics and then you truly deserve whatever karma serves you up.
I am a little less drunk but not that much more sober.
I issue a general apology. My statements were rash and unfair. I made the mistake of posting about a subject with which I still have vast and painful unresolved issues. I now know that until I resolve those issues, this subject (like that of abortion) is one of those that I should not talk about with people I care about because I will not be able to talk about it in a rational way.
I’m sorry it took so much stubborness, defensivness and pain for me to realize that. I suppose I was in for a good dressing down. I just hope we can leave this all with no ill-will.
For shit’s sake, Even Sven, you are your own worst enemy. Your grammar and spelling are attrocious. Are you really an honor student? Where? Porky Pig’s Barnyard University? If the spelling and grammar of this post are any indication of the quality of your universtiy work, then your instructors must be a bunch of incompetent lackwits to be impressed enough with your work to give you the grades you need to make the honor roll.
And does it not embarrass you to stick your nose into a situation for the purposes of shit-stirring, when things were obviously finished before you got here?
I mean, hell. Sven took her reaming nobly and apologized for her out of place comments. (BTW – class act, Sven.)
This isn’t the time for you to pile on, you fart-tube.
In fact, Mort Furd, if you don’t apologize pretty damn quick for either a) not reading the whole thread before you posted (and it’s not like even sven’s brief and elegant apology is buried in among alot of verbage) or for b) reading the apology but wanting nothing more than to pick a fight, you are shortly going to get the ass-reaqming of a life time. This was a nasty misunderstanding between several nice people: your post, on the other hand, coming after a dignified resolution, makes you look like the most petty type of adolecent rabble rouser. See the difference?
Mort Furd, you struck a blow after the bell. If it was simply a case of hitting “quote/reply” before you had finished reading the thread, please be good enough to say so.
Mort Furd, quoting an entire, very long post like that isn’t going to make you any friends, either. Snip as needed to get at the salient points, please. (Oh yeah, and I would like to invoke Gaudere’s Rule here; it’s not ‘attrocious’, it’s ‘atrocious’).
But to be fair, it was the pit and it did involve SM in some way… but, well. (Gosh, is this guilt I feel?) Final statement: the object of the pit thread was SM’s understanding. In the end, however, I shot off my own foot for easier placement in my mouth.