Have you ever actually succeeded in changing anyone’s mind regarding a “Great Debates” style issue – abortion, gay marriage, gun control, the death penalty, etc.? I don’t mean someone who was on the fence to begin with – I mean someone who had strong opinions but who became convinced they were wrong after talking to you. If so, what was the debate, and what argument finally swayed them?
I’m not looking to start a Great Debate here in IMHO, I’m just wondering if it’s even possible to convince anyone of anything. In my experience, once people are entrenched in their views, there is pretty much nothing you can do to change their mind. Lord knows I’ve tried. If we can establish once and for all that this is impossible, it would sure save me a lot of time and effort. (And on the off chance that it isn’t impossible, I’d really like to know how you did it.)
You know, I was gonna start debating some issues in GD, but TheLoadedDog has convinced me otherwise, and opened my eyes to what would be a futile endeavor.
Well I know of at least two recently on this board. One was Bricker on his stance about the word ‘marriage’ and ‘civil unions’—it was a very interesting debate. And just recently–although not a complete reversal of this person’s previous position–they did modify their stance substantially–this was prisoner6655321 on gays and marriage–as I said not a reversal but a much improved viewpoint. I have also read other dopers accounts here of repositioning after hearing the opposite viewpoint. However I doubt you will change anyones views (mine included) if you are a shrill, loud, obnoxious poster–but those who are reasoned and counter arguments with thought out responses have a very good chance of changing a strong opinion.
As for myself–I would suggest that the images and thoughts projected by posters such as Poly and Siege have greatly influenced my own thinking. Prior to reading posts by them I frankly thought of most religious people as crude, rude and condescending and not Christian like at all. They have shown me through their posting styles and responses that one can be very religious and very tolerant. For me that was a huge step and I think those posters (and lots of others I should add–those two just seem to be prominent in my mind) help in that regard and they help me look past the faults of several other posters (who I could name but I won’t!) who in their messages on this board show the worst of Christians. Thanks to the good ones like Poly and Siege I can see that my prior attitudes were wrong.
So yes I think that you can change strong opinions if the other person is open minded.
Changing someone’s mind is not the purpose of true debate. True debaters debate for the sole joy of cogent argument, presenting facts to support their positions. This board has some of that going on, but to an alarming extent the ‘debates’ dissolve into angry tirades replete with MOD warnings and hurt feelings. The best outcome to be hoped for in a debate is that observers feel that your argument was the most pursuasive and best-supported.
It happens. Prisoner6655321 recently changed positions on whether same sex marriage should be legal.
But it is very rare; people who post there tend to be quite rigid in their views, and have often put a lot of thought into constructing and defending a rationale to support them. This is why I seldom post there. I know that I’m not going to convince people to change their minds, and I know that someone better informed than I am will eventually come along and defend my position better than I could.
But Great Debates isn’t really about changing minds and achiving concensus. It’s really about exploring why we have the ideas we have. For those who post there, debating someone with a different viewpoint helps us understand our own better, helps us explain to ourselves why we think the way we do.
The biggest benefit, though, is to the lurkers. I don’t post there, but read there a lot, and I’ve come to understand some issues a lot better and have found my pov shifted a little bit if not changed.
Actually, based on my own experiences as the person convinced, I think it is possible. It just isn’t possible for one individual to convince another to change their world view in the context of a here-and-now debate with the second individual walking away a completely changed person two minutes later.
However, it is, I think. possible to affect a person’s opinions by a long process of gradual change . This involves being a part of a much larger group of people slowly (and perhaps unconsciously) affecting a given person’s way of thinking.
My political beliefs now, for example, a vastly different to what they were at age 20, but no one person changed them in an instant. however, I can look back at conversations and debates I’ve had, and years later acknowledge that they helped to shape the opinions I hold today.
Generally people change their strongly held views by having their previous view chipped away little by little. It’s not usually an epiphany. So GD can be helpful with providing part of the chipping.
In real life I have managed to convince people every once in a while but it’s a lot of work and takes a number of conversations.
I doubt I’ve ever changed anyone’s mind in one sitting. Perhaps over a long period of intellectual discourse. I know that my own opinions on GD-type matters have changed (to varied degrees) throughout the years, and that it’s come about from talking to those with whom I disagree.
Nope but I’ve been convinced to switch sides on some issues over the years. Most notably my general political outlook (vaguely conservative -> dedcidely liberal) and a couple hot topic issues like the death penalty.
I’m not a good enough debater to try to convince others though, so I don’t try.
I’ve convinced exactly one person ni all my years online to change their position on a topic – it was capital gains taxation, but was not on the SDMB.
I have also changed my position once due to another’s arguments online, but I don’t recall what the topic was.
This is of course only counting immediate measurable changes of opinion. Sometimes there will be a more gradual subtle change like other posters have said.
The only thing I ever managed to convince someone to change their views on was bleu cheese dressing, and I wasn’t even trying. He offered me some, and I wrinkled my nose and said “No, thanks.” Then I made some off-handed comment about the fact that it’s made with mold, which apparently he had never known.
He claims that he has never eaten it again. I feel bad, because if the guy liked the stuff then he should by all means enjoy it, and it’s not like the mold is a disgusting, slimy mold.
So, he convinced me to stop telling people that bleu cheese is moldy
I’d say I’ve changed my views on things over time. I don’t think that’s a bad thing. I think it’s a mix of growing up, and being open minded about the opinions of others and taking them into consideration. I feel you’d be a fool not to. Wanna debate that?
To my knowledge, I don’t think I’ve “converted” anyone to any of my reasonings, yet.
Not here, but in another forum I got into a discussion with someone about gun ownership. He was pretty convinced that anyone who wanted to take his guns away would indeed have to pry them out of his cold, dead hands. We talked at fairly great length on the subject, over the course of perhaps a year. About two months ago, he sent me an email saying that he had not taken into consideration a lot of the points I had raised, and he wanted me to know that I was largely responsible for him giving up his guns. (Now I just have to pray no one invades his home and shoots him, thereby rendering my argument useless.)
I read an article written by a man who insisted that voting was pointless, and I sent him a fairly scathing letter. We had a lengthy e-mail exchange on the subject, and I’m proud to say that in the last election, he drove with me to the polls and voted for the first time.
Many years ago, Mr. Legend and I had a housemate who was violently opposed to wearing seatbelts. Her father had taught her that it was better to be “thrown clear” in the event of an accident, and she flat-out refused to put on a seatbelt because it might trap her in a burning car. Mr. Legend, on the other hand, had recently lived through a very serious head-on crash because he was wearing a seatbelt, and he was wearing it because I’d spent a year convincing him that seatbelts were A Good Thing. Because of this success, I had become something of a proselytizer for seatbelt use, and Mr. Legend backed me up. Our housemate remained adamantly against wearing them for the first couple of months she lived with us, but our constant use of them and reminders to our passengers finally wore off on her. The result was that she was wearing her seatbelt when her car when into a ditch on a dark road, flipped over twice, and the body separated from the frame. She was able to unbuckle the belt, crawl out through a window, and walk a mile home.
The police came to the house about an hour later, prepared to tell the people of the house that they were looking for a body in the mesa near the wrecked car. They were astonished to find the driver safe at home, shaken and bruised but not much worse for the wear. She went on to convince three or four other friends that seatbelts were worth the effort.
