Ever had service provider criticize how much you tipped?

[Balthisar]

@Shot_From_Guns

Are you remembering to account for the gap between what they get paid (on an hourly basis, minus tips) and minimum wage?

In my math I didn’t, because it still seems pretty danged low, and we’re also considering minimum wage as the baseline. But, okay, in my home state of Michigan, the the waitperson minimum wage seems to be $2.13 per hour regardless of tip income (but Michigan mirrors the federal requirements for requiring total compensation at the federal level). Even so, either the restaurant isn’t “upscale[,] high-volume”, or causticsubstance is a bad waitperson, or I vastly underestimate the number of people that tip (and/or their percentages).

Re-doing the math, then, at $2.13/hour we’re looking at $4400 for showing up, and $18,600 tips over 52 weeks (no vacation assumed). That’s still less than $72 bucks per day in tips. At a run-of-the-mill chain place like Olive Garden, my wife and I will blow $60 easily with a couple of drinks, and that’s an easy $10 to $15 tip. Assuming an average of 10% (to account for low- and non-tippers) per table over an 8 hour shift (say, $6 per table, assuming all are couples), he’d only need to attend to twelve tables over eight hours!

In the examples so far, I’m talking about Olive Garden, Red Lobster, Chile’s, places like that, where a lower class of people will frequent (meaning me, sometimes). Some idiots won’t tip, or don’t know how, or whatever. But causticsubstance mentions “upscale[,] high-volume” which is full of better people (meaning me, sometimes). You know, people who know the social tipping rules. And upscale, high-volume, even assuming the same niggardly 10% would have to absolutely be much higher than the Olive Garden chain example because the prices are substantially higher.

So I’m questioning either the amounts involved (max $23k) or the class of restaurant.

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Hell, even when I delivered pizzas (16 years ago!) I only worked five hours a night, served mostly (cheap) soldiers (I was one!), and made over $100 in tips most nights that I never claimed (statute of limitations expired).

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Just got back from Puerto Vallarta. It really, really pissed me off to see some of the other patrons leave US$1 tips (per table) in the a la carte restaurants after a lovely, wonderful meal. Except for one instance of truly horrid service, we routinely left MX$100 (about US$8.50), which seemed fair considering prevailing Mexican prices (hard to judge the “real” cost in an all-inclusive, but common sense dictates that it’s not a US$5 meal for two).

[causticsubstance]

Sorry, you’re right. I don’t work 2080 hours a year. It’s more like 25-35 hours a week, depending on business, which isn’t full time but is 5 or 6 days a week. Though to be more precise, I just moved to a state where servers get minimum wage and I am given more hours per week, but things aren’t stable enough to where I can estimate how much I make per year. This is my first year serving while not having to pay tuition, so I can keep better track of how much money I’m making per year, but previously, at my upscale high-volume restaurant I made something between 300-400 a week, depending on the week. And every 2 weeks my paycheck would come and that would be roughly 0-20$ because they tax those tips and deduct that from my hour. That’s at most $16 an hour. I don’t know if I can extrapolate that to a yearly income because that figure isn’t necessarily true of all seasons.

As far as only making $30 over minimum wage per night, it’s not unheard of to get one or two tables make $5-20 in a shift. Combined with getting paid $2.13 and hour, that is less than minimum wage some nights. It depends on the restaurant, though. Some places, especially corporate ones, are reliably busy and that would never happen. Other restaurants, you show up to work, it’s dead for an hour or so and the manager looks at you and says “So… do you want to go home?” And you go home having made nothing. I myself had to open Saturday mornings, which were normally very, very slow where I worked. A second server came in about an hour and a half after I did, and it got to the point where I would come in and set everything up for him and leave when he got there, and he would take all the tables that shift. I got paid 2.13 an hour for that, but I didn’t mind because I was very thankful to have that job anyway.

[bengangmo]

@causticsubstance

Sorry, you’re right. I don’t work 2080 hours a year. It’s more like 25-35 hours a week, depending on business, which isn’t full time but is 5 or 6 days a week. Though to be more precise, I just moved to a state where servers get minimum wage and I am given more hours per week, but things aren’t stable enough to where I can estimate how much I make per year. This is my first year serving while not having to pay tuition, so I can keep better track of how much money I’m making per year, but previously, at my upscale high-volume restaurant I made something between 300-400 a week, depending on the week. And every 2 weeks my paycheck would come and that would be roughly 0-20$ because they tax those tips and deduct that from my hour. That’s at most $16 an hour. I don’t know if I can extrapolate that to a yearly income because that figure isn’t necessarily true of all seasons.

As far as only making $30 over minimum wage per night, it’s not unheard of to get one or two tables make $5-20 in a shift. Combined with getting paid $2.13 and hour, that is less than minimum wage some nights. It depends on the restaurant, though. Some places, especially corporate ones, are reliably busy and that would never happen. Other restaurants, you show up to work, it’s dead for an hour or so and the manager looks at you and says “So… do you want to go home?” And you go home having made nothing. I myself had to open Saturday mornings, which were normally very, very slow where I worked. A second server came in about an hour and a half after I did, and it got to the point where I would come in and set everything up for him and leave when he got there, and he would take all the tables that shift. I got paid 2.13 an hour for that, but I didn’t mind because I was very thankful to have that job anyway.

This post explains exactly why tipping is so screwed up.

[rhubarbarin]

@Dangerosa

It isn’t newish, been around for ages - employees - even servers - are entitled to minimum wage. And its federal.

And while I tip, and tip well, I also am not going to be the one responsible for making sure you get paid adequately because your employer can’t follow the law. That’s between you and your employer - and if you aren’t getting up to minimum wage and your employer isn’t responsive - you do what the rest of us do - talk to your department of labor or an attorney. I also really resent the often made implication that the reason I need to tip 20% is because the next table will stiff the waitstaff and its my responsibility to make sure that a waiter gets a living wage because the next guy might stiff you. Those things are between two parties that don’t involve me.

If I didn’t like it, I’d do something else. I seem to be a lot less angry/resentful about the nature of working for tips than a lot of other servers - I’m happy to get 15%, because I often get less than that, particularly on large bills which took a lot more time and work on my part.Although I’m disappointed when I don’t get the minimum (I rarely get stiffed, or undertipped because someone seems dissatisfied with my service - there are just quite a few people who don’t ever tip up to 15%, I have had long-time customers who never leave more than a dollar, maybe two, and are very nice people otherwise and seem happy with how I serve them), I understand that’s the nature of the beast. I can’t expect every person to abide by the ‘social contract’ of a 15% tip for American servers.

My post was only meant to illustrate that it’s not exactly a fantastic living I’m making over here. It pays my bills though (well, that has depended on where I was working and the time of my life - I had very few expenses when I was working at the first place making $12,000 per year full-time), and I like the work. When it’s busy there’s always something to do next, and you run around instead of standing or sitting all day. When it’s slow, after side work is done, we goof off, play cards, and eat and drink (often for free). I have other jobs where I have to stand or sit, and seek out work to do, and it really takes it out of me mentally and physically.

[Dangerosa]

@causticsubstance

As far as only making $30 over minimum wage per night, it’s not unheard of to get one or two tables make $5-20 in a shift. Combined with getting paid $2.13 and hour, that is less than minimum wage some nights. It depends on the restaurant, though. Some places, especially corporate ones, are reliably busy and that would never happen. Other restaurants, you show up to work, it’s dead for an hour or so and the manager looks at you and says “So… do you want to go home?” And you go home having made nothing. I myself had to open Saturday mornings, which were normally very, very slow where I worked. A second server came in about an hour and a half after I did, and it got to the point where I would come in and set everything up for him and leave when he got there, and he would take all the tables that shift. I got paid 2.13 an hour for that, but I didn’t mind because I was very thankful to have that job anyway.

And at that point, by federal labor law which overrides state law, your employer is responsible for getting you to minimum wage for hours worked. If they are not, they are in violation of the law, regardless of what state you are in.

(I think its actually minimum wage over the course of a pay period. But if you are not pulling minimum wage, regardless of the state you are in, your employer needs to make up the difference: http://www.dol.gov/elaws/faq/esa/flsa/002.htm)

[MannyL]

I once was in NY and had such bad service that I left no top on the table, wrote a note about why I was not tipping and I have the busboy $5.00 because I knew he would be stiffed.

I’ve had to educate quite a few servers recently that if at the end of a pay period your hourly rate plus tips is less than minimum wage your employer has to make up the difference.

[Shot_From_Guns]

@Dangerosa

And at that point, by federal labor law which overrides state law, your employer is responsible for getting you to minimum wage for hours worked. If they are not, they are in violation of the law, regardless of what state you are in.

(I think its actually minimum wage over the course of a pay period. But if you are not pulling minimum wage, regardless of the state you are in, your employer needs to make up the difference: http://www.dol.gov/elaws/faq/esa/flsa/002.htm)

AFAIK, this is correct–“below minimum wage” is calculated per pay period. You’re not going to get an hour-by-hour true-up. And a couple of hours making only $2 and change as described here is probably not enough to drag you down below minimum.