In this post, Nolies made the following statement:
(The reason he didn’t want to get censured was because the thread was in CSR and the thread had nothing to do with the resurrection of Jesus.)
I decided to bring the matter here and allow Nolies to present his evidence. I look forward to hearing it.
Now, I personally, believe that there is no evidence to this (indeed, I don’t believe it happened at all - but that’s another debate I suppose). For those of you who are Christians and believe it as a matter of faith - I have no argument with you on this (indeed, I’ll be the first to admit that there is no physical evidence for the existence of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, et al - I accept their existence and the stories of their lives on faith and tradition alone, and do not ascribe any “evidence” to them [although, if evidence does surface later, I’d surely welcome it].). I’m looking for good 'ol fashioned evidence here.
So, Nolies, here’s your stage to present your evidence, free of censure. Let’s hear it.
Didn’t we have this debate just recently? I think the thread might even still be within the allowable bump range. Anyway, I’ll just say here what I said there. My best evidence for His resurrection, as far as I’m concerned, is my own experience with Him.
I think it’s actually more for Nolies to get his “Jewish commentaries and scholars/rejection of the risen Christ” baggage off his chest than for a Great “debate” as such.
Oh, and all the prophesies. My guess is that’s the core Nolies’ evidences. That (according to the Gospels) Jesus fulfilled all the prophesies (sufficiently interpreted) in the OT should provide evidence that Jesus was the Messiah and the Risen Son of G-d.
Or something. It begs a lot of questions, so I ain’t about to try to argue it.
There are no prophecies of Jesus in the OT. Not one. The Gospel writers twisted writings of Jewish teachers that critiqued social issues in their day into spurious foretellings of Jesus.
The typical answer is a lot of people had a transforming experience all at once, hence it’s likely to be true, since there’s no “better” explanation for the honest conviction of so many people.
A lot of people believe fervently that they were abducted by aliens, or that they saw Elvis at the strip mall, too. But of course, that’s different.
There is actually no real proof even for this. The first unambiguous assertion that Jesus physically rose from the dead is not found in Christian literature until the Gospel of Matthew, at least 50 years after crucifixion, and that book was not written by a witness. There are no alleged appearances in Thomas or Q or Mark, which are all earlier than Matthew.
There are mentions of appearances by Paul, but it is very unclear whether he is talking about a physical appearance or a spiritual one. He does not mention an empty tomb and his appearance chronology contradicts all of the gospels.
When you get right down to it, there is no solid proof that a single person ever made a claim to have witnessed a physical resurrection.
The empty tomb was probably invented by Mark. We’ve had this discussion before here, so I’ll be brief. The Romans did not allowed crucified criminals to be given over for burials in tombs. The bodies were either left on the cross or dumped in shallow. communal graves with other criminals. To allow an executed criminal a proper burial was seen as an admission that the victim was innocent. Pilate would never have done that.
The empty tomb seems to be unknown to Paul and does not turn up in Christian literature until Mark’s Gospel- at least 40 years after the crucifixion.
Incidentally, there is no reason the Romans would have guarded the tomb or cared if the body was stolen.
Good point. Now that you mention it, crushingly obvious point that sat right under my nose for more than a decade and never occurred to me. Since undergrad my counter-argument has always been the possibility of mass hysteria (which does happen), when, actually, there’s no evidence there was a mass anything at a particular point in time.
