I would expect the football size trilobites to appear much higher in the fossil record or to appear more often next to the wolves, BTW I could not find a cite that mentioned where those mixed fossils were found, if there was a flood it is clear that trilobites just decided to ignore buoyancy… Nah, more likely they just ended as fossils millions of years before dinosaurs or wolves appeared.
Here is another item that shows how magic buoyancy is by disposing of the universal flood, from Colibri’s link:
Notice they don’t support your bogus argument of Adam and Eve having extra genetic material. Of course they don’t discuss cases where the variations we see cannot emerge directly from one breeding pair.
The genetic load argument is a load. First of all, how do they know that the first hemoglobin variation was the best? Doesn’t it make as much sense that the first was not better than what is dominant now, and the current dominant (in the sense of most widely spread, not the genetic sense) spread through the population from being superior?
Evolution never claims that a population will lose all genetic diversity. That would be unfavorable, since diversity, even if not optimal in a current environment, might become superior in a new environment. Also, mutations may occur in unexpressed genes, which might get turned on at some later date.
Of course mutations happen to existing genetic material. No one claims otherwise. Fruit fly experiments show that small mutations can have big impacts to body structure, though.
Note how they’re avoiding the claim that all mutations are harmful - I guess even ICR can’t support that anymore.
That is my quick untrained view. Someone who actually knows this stuff can probably find all sorts of additional flaws and quote mining.
Forget bounacy: in real floods, victims are often buried under debris and silt and don’t even float, and they are buried at different times depending on whether they can get to higher ground in time.
Creationists would have us believe that not a single dino made it to a mountaintop: not a single human was too sick or lame and got buried early. Not a single trilobyte managed to swim to the top and stay there until the end.
So, let me get this straight: Adam and Eve had every possible gene that exists today? And these genes have been kind of dwindling ever since?
The addition of genes happens all the time. It’s called mutation. Most mutations are harmful. Some are neutral. A very few are beneficial to the individual. If you doubt it, think about how bacteria, all the time, somehow develop immunity to antibiotics. Somewhere, some time, a single bacterium changed so that it had slightly more resistance to penicillin. It made not the slightest difference until humans started trying to kill off the bacteria. The few that were slightly more resistant survived longer and went on to breed more of their kind. Lather, rinse, repeat. Today there is an increasing problem with bacteria that are resistant not only to penicillin but to almost every known antibiotic.
Chromosomes join and merge, too. It’s pretty well accepted that chimps have one more chromosome than humans. The Chimp Genome Project found that:
Oh…is this thread still going on? Sorry, I’m easily distracted…
Um…were you open to reading the links I took the trouble to hunt up for you (I had this feeling I was wasting my time there)? I read YOUR links, though admittedly I only skimmed them, having seen them before.
For context, this is what I had said:
Specific things impossible, ehe? Do you know anything about logistics? Running a zoo? You see, there are a lot more species than were known when the bible was written. Even caring for just 2 of every animal (and of course, this isn’t actually accurate, as some animals there were I believe 5 or 7 of) would be a monster task for hundreds of people…let alone just a handful.
Also, we get into the special dietary needs of some animals. Take kuala bears for instance. It is essential that they eat eucalyptis leaves. LOTS of it in fact. So, Noah et al would have needed to stock quite a supply of it for them. No problem, right? Except Noah et al would have needed to do this for a LOT of animals. Some carnivores need meat in their diets, especially for weeks or months…or they die. Meat doesn’t stay fresh, so you would need to bring MORE animals to provide food for them (and thus you’d need even more fodder). Some animals have very specialized diets of things that are only available in their small little niche environments.
Then there are the bugs. As has been pointed out to you, there are literally millions of species of bugs. Even if we are only talking about having 2 each, we are talking about a hell of a lot of bugs. Maybe you are under the impression that bugs are small and don’t take up a lot of room? This is true…for a few bugs. even a LOT of bugs. But we are talking about literally MILLIONS of bugs here. Even if there was room on arc to hold them all, they would be wreaking havoc with the food supplies, getting in to everything and generally making life hell. AND, if you happen to fuck up and step on on…well, there goes that species. Bummer dude…
Then there is the impossibility of Noah actually traveling to remote islands to get stuff like komodo dragons and Galapagos iguanas and such…or to expect them to all swim/fly/crawl from said islands to the Middle East.
I could go on and on. The sheer mass that just 2 of each kind of animal on earth would take would dwarf the space given in the bible for the boat. The food requirements alone for several months to sustain them would even dwarf the space of the arc for so many animals. Then there is the whole deal with, um…well, poo. Waste disposal would be as monumental a task as feeding all those animals each and every day…a herculean task for an army, let alone a handful of humans.
Its, simply put impossible. The folks who thought up the story didn’t have a clue how big the world really was, nor how many animals there truely are world wide…and they never thought about things like bugs or fish. They looked around the Middle East and perhaps Africa and though, hell…there aren’t all THAT many animals. We could fit em all, elephants included, on a REALLY big boat. Bit provincial in their outlook, but thats all they had to go on back then. We, however, know better…or we SHOULD (hint hint) if we actually thought about this stuff logically and actually bothered working out the numbers…
I see this one has been dealt with so I won’t go into it.
Um…no. Not really. Because you see, if there was a world wide flood, the fact that some species could live in diluted salt/fresh water environments wouldn’t really be too helpful…unless they can, you know, breath mud. See, in a FLOOD, especially a world wide flood, there would be a huge amount of debris swept from the land into the oceans. Ever seen a river in flood? Notice its kind of brown in color? Ever wonder why? Now, multiply that by several orders of magnitude, then a few more to be safe…then you will be close to what would have happened in a flood that could overtop mountains, and happened in a relatively short time frame. No chance the majority of aquatic species would survive that…very slim chance ANY would.
Ok…that says a lot then. Take a look around you. Does the earth really look to you as if there was a world wide flood only 6000 years ago? Note that we can STILL see the effects of lesser events like the meteor crator in Arizona (or the one that, er, killed the dinosaurs in the Yucatan peninsula )…where is the evidence of this massive event that happened basically an eye blink in time? You saying that the Egyptians can build structures that last for thousands of years, yet this massive event from god has left no trace? Leave aside that you don’t understand how species propagate you don’t know much about genetics, evolution, science, etc etc…just think logically. Look around at the world…does it LOOK like there was a massive flood that put even the tallest mountains under water a mere 6000 years ago?? That such an event would leave SOME kind of evidence?
I always wondered how the Chinese scholars and court archivists writing in 2304 BCE failed to notice the entire world being flooded. You’d think one of them would have mentioned it.
Not just no trace, but no destruction of other traces, either. A worldwide flood (especially one marked by earthquakes and other massive unheavals of land) would destroy pretty much every building on Earth. And yet, the Great Pyramid still stands, built circa 2560 BC. Not only did the Egyptians build structures lasting thousands of years, they were also flood and earthquake-proof. Clever chaps.
“Monday 11th, 2304 BC. Swam to work again today. Bloody Emperor wanted more pictures of these new fishpig shoals - I’m going to run out of pink at this rate. The other scholars still don’t know what we’re supposed to be counting down to. Useless gits.”
Here is an article discussing human mutation rates. The high spontaneous mutation rate: Is it a health risk?* Note that this is not some anti-scientific glurge from a person who is trying to persuade some uninformed reader that their beliefs might be true. This is a scientific paper that is being presented to real scientists (who would tear it to shreds if it had errors) that notes, in passing, the earlier work of people who had already discovered that there were ongoing mutations in human biology and actually discovered methods to measure and categorize the rates of change.
Your comment is a reflection of the ignorance demonstrated in the ICR article to which you pointed me earlier. Mutations occur all the time and many provide benefits. Examples of Beneficial Mutations and Natural Selection Even some mutations that appear to be deleterious may have beneficial aspects. The mutation that leads to Sickle Cell Anemia is very helpful in reducing the risk of populations in areas of high incidences of malaria from being wiped out by that disease.
Hey, is Letterman still doing Will It Float? Becuase I have a great idea for one of his shows.
Well, yes, actually. And the stage show at Universal Studios Hollywood. (The stage show wasn’t too bad, but not nearly as good as T2:3D.) In any case there is not enough water locked up in ice to flood Denver, much less everything but parts of the Himalayas.
Wow, that number was reported with a level of precision you almost never see.
Oh, that’s easily explained, because the pyramids were built by aliens.
xtismehere is a link which gives some numbers for the kinetic energy problem. He doesn’t do the math, but with the weight of water and the distance it is supposed to be above the earth, the rest is easy. (I didn’t check.)
)…where is the evidence of this massive event that happened basically an eye blink in time? You saying that the Egyptians can build structures that last for thousands of years, yet this massive event from god has left no trace? Leave aside that you don’t understand how species propagate you don’t know much about genetics, evolution, science, etc etc…just think logically. Look around at the world…does it LOOK like there was a massive flood that put even the tallest mountains under water a mere 6000 years ago?? That such an event would leave SOME kind of evidence?