Sure.
And by himself he is a complete shit.
But we are ranking people here and as bad as he was there were many even worse.
It says something about Game of Thrones when a double child murderer isn’t anywhere near the top of the list.
Yeah.
I sometimes wonder if that was part of the appeal of the show. Its unflinching portrayal of a very brutal world.
I’m not sure I’d put Tywin on the list, honestly. In the context of the show, he was one of the most stand-up guys we’ve seen, maybe only second behind Ned. Both Robb and Jon broke solemn oaths; I don’t see Tywin doing that.
Simmer down, Sam, she had just gotten to Westeros and was trying to set a precedent.
Yeah, how so? Everything she has done has been to people who wronged her. She is certifably badass, which is why she has reached the final…so to speak.
Her concept of “wronging her” is a bit wide, though. It includes a baby guilty of “murdering her mother”, for example; I’m reasonably sure Tyrion didn’t do it on purpose.
He did kill their father. And the people she blow up in the Great Sept had done all sorts of lousy things to her, including making her walk buck naked in streets. The Martell women killed her daughter, for basically no reason.
Eddard Stark may not have tried to kill her, but what he was doinbg ensured she and her children died.
I say she is just the designated villan. She can hit harder than the others, as it turns out. And often those guys hit first.
I would say it’s much easier to list the characters in Game of Thrones who are actually good people.
Viserys Targaryen never got the chance to be really evil because of his monumental stupidity. Given the chance, he would have done everything that his sister did and more and become one of the most evil characters in that world. Personally, I was glad he got to wear the golden helmet.
Challenge accepted!
Sam, Hot Pie, Gendry, …, uh, Davos? I think I’m out. Oh no, wait, Tommen and Myrcella. Six. And two were products of twincest and raised by Cersei. Go figure.
EDIT: Oh, Shireen makes seven.
You seem to forget that people who made her walk butt naked were put in their position by herself, because she expected them to make someone else walk butt naked (and hopefully execute her). She rejoiced when she knew about Margaery being held in cells . It began to bother her only when she was the one jailed and humiliated. She entirely deserved it if only because she intended to inflict the exact same things upon others. Others who were only guilty of threatening her hold on power, and rivaling for her son’s affection for the most “guilty” of the two.
She excused and supported all of her son’s violent and murderous activities for years.
She had all of Robert’s bastard children murdered.
She started the show by telling her brother to kill a child to cover up her affair.
I’m not sure what else it would take for you to think that she is a villain if this isn’t enough. Even when she was actually reacting to something done to her, with the exception of Myrcella’s death, she had called it upon herself by her previous evil behavior, or at best by her idiocy. You point out that her brother had killed her father, but you should remember why he did so : because said father wanted him to be executed. With the complete and enthusiast support of Cersei.
She’s self-centered to the most extreme degree. When Jaime, that she supposedly loves, comes back from captivity, she’s unable to forgive him for having failed her by being held in captivity. She doesn’t care that he was unable to come back for obvious reasons. He wasn’t present when she needed him, and that’s unforgivable in her view. She even resents him for coming back with a hand missing.
She’s mean, uncaring, contemptuous, petty and vain.
Yes, he murdered his brother. He most certainly appears to be all you say, but as I wrote, I failed to remember any clearly evil act he actually committed in the show, except for serving and backing the “bad guy” Cersei and delivering to her her ennemies. I could arguably put him higher on the list, but I feel that we have rather been induced into viewing him as evil while he actually did vastly less than most other characters.
I intended to do a similar list for them (in fact, I originally intended to do that first), but didn’t.
And in fact, there are more than it appears at first glance when you think of it (depending of who you see as a main character). Jon (although some could dispute that), Bran, Gendry, Sansa, Tyrion, Brienne, Podrick, Sam, Gilly, Ned (although someone wants to put him in the villain list), Varys (disputable), Margaery (very ambitious and manipulative, but not doing anything wrong that I can remember and some good), Davos, Shireen, Meera, Joshen, Myrcella (probably doesn’t count as main character), the prince of Dorne (as far as I can tell), Tomnen…
It’s odd that I’m considering that alist of all the horrible things the Lannisters have done. Might be necessary for this thread.
Tywin may have been an efficient administrator, but he isn’t a “stand up guy.” The Lannister’s sing a song that’s all about Tywin’s cruelty.
Cersei’s entire life is marked with cruelty and viciousness except when it comes to her father, her brother/lover, and her three children.
Cersei killed hundreds, perhaps thousands in the Sept of Baelor. How many of them were personally responsible for her walk of shame?
Just faking one example, what did Margaery do that justifies being murdered? Margaery wasn’t even in on Joffrey’s murder.
He’s also the one who ordered the mountain to burn the province surrounding Riverrun whose name escapes me. He’s ultimately responsible for all the crimes committed there against the common people.
Yes, but she hated him from birth on account of “murdering her mother” (the mother of Tyrion and Jaime be damned, btw). She hated him since before he was old enough to do anything more offensive than shit. OK, I’ll admit baby shit is some sort of WMD, specially in high amounts, but so far humanity has been able to survive the production of enormous quantities of it without self-destroying.
There has been more than one person who blamed a baby for killing its mother, but most people wouldn’t consider the insistence to do so a desirable trait.
An interview with the Slovakian actor who played the NK: 'Game of Thrones': The Night King speaks out | CNN
He had been Hand to the King and turned against that king, just as his son did. He arranged for Tyrion’s first wife to be gang-raped. He was behind the Red Wedding. And they don’t sing “The Rains of Castamere” out of admiration for his tender-heartedness.
:: golf clap ::
I’d add the Maid of Tarth and Jeor Mormont.
All but one - but I thought that was on Joffrey’s orders?
Stannis and Melisandre deserve a place much, much higher on the list. They burned hundreds of innocent people to death for not worshipping the Red God and murdered Renly and Shireen in the pursuit of power, and were prepared to murder many more to succeed with their goals. They may not be as bad as Ramsay or the Mountain, but I’d rank their deeds as far worse than anything Jaime or Sandor has ever done.
If I recall correctly, Cersei actively tried to murder Tyrion (perhaps more than once) when they were children. She actually murdered her own friend for nothing more than merely expressing a wish to perhaps marry Jamie when they grew up. She gave over multiple people to be horribly tortured by Qyburn.
She’s not doing things merely to protect her family from harm. She’s cruel and vicious. Her callousness and indifference to the suffering of the people of Kings Landing has her constantly on the edge of a revolt. And then she blows up half the city.
Tywin is similarly vicious by choice. What he did to Tyrion’s wife, Tysha, for example. And he actively participated in framing his own son, knowing he was innocent. He sent Gregor Clegane against numerous innocents over the years
Well we now know that Melisandre wasn’t just doing it for power. Ultimately, many of her acts that in the short term served to bring Stannis to power were in the long run for the purpose of saving humanity from the Night King.