Game of Thrones 2.04 "Garden of Bones" 4/22 No Book Spoilers

Episode 1: The North Remembers
Episode 2: The Night Lands
Episode 3: What is Dead May Never Die
This is the thread for people who want to discuss the show without outside information that may spoil the story from either the books or other sources. Discussion about the current episodes and all previous episodes of the series requires no spoiler box. Which means that there should be no need for the use of any spoiler boxes in this thread.

If you are looking for discussions where spoilers are acceptable, please visit the season 2 closed spoiler and open spoiler threads.

Don’t argue about the spoiler rules in the thread, take it to the pit if necesary.

Gukamatz has been moderating these threads because he’s more familiar with the source content than the other cafe society mods. This was his note in the OP of the first thread this season:

We left off last week with Arya and Gendry caught by Lannister men. Theon Greyjoy has decided to side with King Dick over Robb, and the Iron Islanders prepare to invade the north. Catelyn attempts to win over Renly with bad diplomacy, mocking them for playing games of grab-ass while the north wages war. We may see reprecussions for Tyrion’s imprisoning of a grand maester.

“It’s not my fault!”

Holy fuck, that was creepy.

Has anyone ever won Best Supporting Actor and Best Actor for the same show? Because Peter Dinklage is well on his way. He chews up and spits out every scene he’s in.

I loooved the Lannister guards at the start having the stereotypical “who’s the best fighter” discussion that all fandoms usually have.

I posted this question at Sepinwall’s blog, and am asking here too because I’m really curious.

I’m curious if viewers who haven’t read the books are upset by what happened with Melisandre. This is the first real magic we’ve seen, and it has the potential to upset the balance of power, and make the humans less important. I mean, why worry about what the Lannisters and Greyjoys are up to when one side can birth monsters? Will some viewers see GoT as an X-rated Harry Potter now? Will this be too much magic? I guess I’m asking non-readers how this affects their perception of the show.

It’s not the first magic people have seen. Mirri Maz Durr did magic, so did Dany and Melisandre when she drank that poison.

The other stuff can be explained by the use of potions. This spider-smoke-alien thing is some serious shit.

Potions? how is walking into fire and coming out unscathed and making fossilized dragon eggs hatch any less magic than birthing a shadow creature?

Two thoughts:

[li]King Renly of House Bullwinkle; awesome banners, dude.[/li][li]Good gods, Joff; someone gets you a blowjob for your birthday, just drop trou and appreciate the fine craftswomanship. [/li][/ol]

I’m leery of magic. So far it’s been on the periphery, and I have no idea where this particular incident is going, so I don’t know whether I’ll like it or not, but the story is sufficiently interesting as a conflict between human powers. Magic can be game changing and arbitrary - changing the balance of power and the direction of the story. There’s a certain degree of familiarity and plausibility with the political machinations of real people - we can predict and relate and understand - but anything goes with magic.

I would imagine this is going to make Stannis’ faction a greater force to be reckoned with, as his implied numbers didn’t support him as a major player.

Tyrion continues to be a fucking rock star. The way he waltzed in and scolded Joffrey and the kingsguard - the way he was able to figure out yet more incest, all awesome. This is the Tyrion show and everything else is secondary.

Incidentally, I’m not sure it’s really consistent that Joffrey was left helpless and angry at Tyrion. He threatened his own mother with death after she slapped him, and what Tyrion did was probably just as bad. If Joffrey was to kill Tyrion, Tywin would step in and it would be the end of him - but he seems arrogant, cruel, and drunk off his own power enough to not think that one through and simply execute Tyrion, or at least otherwise punish him.

It’s interesting that Tyrion can so casually threaten to have Bronn kill people, though. Bronn, though capable, is still a common mercenary - it seems he’s an unlikely match for a knight. It’s true that we’ve seen him best a knight before, but not in a way that would allow Tyrion to act as if he’s the biggest badass in the land.

I always did.

Season 1 Episode 1 Scene 1 had zombies, fer cryin’ out loud.

As long as the magic is used in a consistent manner and not as a way of jimmying up the plot however you like, got no problem. So far it has been used with restraint. I’m concerned about the dragons, though.

I admit that’s good stuff, but I don’t think being impervious to fire (we’ve all seen fire walkers) and hatching dragons is as spectacular and WTF-inducing as what Melisandre did.

Viewers know to expect dragons (even if they haven’t read the books). The people in that world know about dragons. But nobody, in their world or ours, had a clue about what Melisandre was up to. I think it’s way more supernatural than what Dany did.

That’s why I think it might be a game-changer, for viewers who haven’t read the books.

There’s a very small perfect scene in this episode - when the Lannister guards are talking, and after the direwolf attacks, there’s a focus pull from the calm eye of a horse to Robb Stark, looking badass, in the rain. And it’s accompanied by appropriate music. It’s like 3 seconds of perfection.

Which actually reminds me - the music works very well in that little scene, but the music on this show in general is pretty weak. None of the themes are memorable, the music isn’t suitably epic for the content, and just in general the music is the only really sub-par element of the show. Really, grand epic fantasy music has been on a dry spell for quite a while.

The guy who plays Tywin Lannister is perfect. He conveys such an instant sense of authority that you truly believe he’s the most powerful man in the world.

Nitpick: Not zombies, those were the White Walkers. They created the zombies that we saw later at The Wall that attacked Lord Mormont.

I agree with others. I hadn’t read the books when I first started watching, and it was clear to me from the start that magic was involved, but not used very freely,. Thehy started the very first episode with what are effectively zombies, and there were examples of magic spread throughout. I must admkit that I was wondering idf dragons were “for real” – those giant skeletons they showed could be simply sculptures, or something, and you had to realize that not everything people thought or believed was true, any more than it was in Medieval Europe (which seems to be the inspiration for the setting). But the last episode of the first series removed any dount on that score.

Am I the only one who isn’t impressed? His role is fine and all, but most of it seems contrived. And his faux British accent is really annoying. I can do a better British accent than that.

As for the show, I continue to like this season much better than the first, although I still don’t know who many of the people are or how they relate to each other. I definitely feel like I’m missing a good 1/3 of the whole “experience” because of that.

“House Bullwinkle”. That’s a good one! :slight_smile:

Joffrey does not respect women, he respects men. Throughout the entire series Joffrey has consistently taken reprimands from his uncle. Yeah, he’s king, but his arrogance and cruelty is pretty much entirely directed at women, with the exception of Ser Dontos.

Bronn isn’t just a common mercenary any more, he’s Lord Commander of the City Watch, so he does have a certain level of authority. Keeping the peace (which I imagine includes beating the future Queen) is one of his duties.
As far as Melisandre’s magic goes, it did take me by surprise in the books. Martin seems like to do this, carry on with the politics of the world for ages and then just throw in some magic to remind you you’re reading a fantasy novel. I too wasn’t sure how I felt about it.

And yeah, somehow it does feel different from Dany being able to stand inside fire and not die. I don’t know why it feels different, but there you go. But it’s all good. I think there’s a really nice balance between magic and politics.