Shit! You mean that they aren’t? I gotta get a new belief system.
I’m just referencing a mindset that I feel irritation for, Frank. I have not referenced any political person or party.
Data point: I have personally spoken to and communicated with such people. They seem to be either 1) so extremely cynical that they can’t imagine an altruistic or in extremis act of heroism such as this, or 2) insecure enough in their own courage (completely understandable, IMO) that since they can’t guarantee their own heroism in this situation, then they can’t believe that anyone would be so self-sacrificial.
Read a little further down in reference to the time required to search versus the expected return.
There may well be, and since we’re discussing people’s inner motives, it’s probably something that is impossible to prove either way. But even if such people exist, so what? I can’t believe that they’re anything other than a tiny, fringe minority. You can find such a minority for almost any belief.
I think you need to be more specific. Are you saying **Dio **is in the “cadre” you are talking about? Are you saying that he isn’t in the cadre, but is sympathetic to it? What exactly do you mean by “close to home”? Unless you have a good explanation, I’d say this Pitting is justified.
It was in reference to his apparent fervor to call me on the carpet. As to the source of his passion, that would be up to him to answer.
Are you *quite * confident you’ve understood what they’ve said, and are summarizing it fairly and accurately? You’re pretty free with your interpretations of their motivations, but you’re so consistently negative and dismissive of them that I have to question that.
I think that Frank basically summed up the reason I called you on the carpet. There is an insinuation in your posts that people who have different political views from your own are secretly evil and twisted and are for some unfathomable reason “irritated” by heroism. I don’t believe you were only talking about conspiracy theorists because you intimated that you have “struck close to home” for me personally and responded sacrcastically when I assured I had not. I repeat: I do not believe in any government conspiracy theory related to Flight 93. I have never remote suggested otherwise. I believe the people on that flight acted heroically and I am not “irritated” by it.
I also think it’s a stupid and unfounded motivation to ascribe even to conspiracy theorists. I don’t have to be one of them to call you out for an unfair and bullshit response to them.
That doesn’t make much sense, so I think you should withdraw that statement. When something “hits close to home” it means that something is a good description of the person the comment is aimed at.
Fairly confident, yes. It’s probably impossible to prove one way or another, and I make no claim of infallible interpretation, but I’m not usually one to ascribe motives with no basis.
Bullshit, John. Since Dio started this thread, it’s reasonable to assume he felt targeted by EO’s remarks. Therefore, EO’s remarks must have “hit close to home”. And if they didn’t, then why all the outrage?
Look, it’s obvious what’s really happening.
Dio felt EO was targeting Liberals. This could well be true, given EO’s past, as Frank’s post above shows us. But Dio won’t just come out and say it for some reason. Instead of just saying, “I don’t believe you when you state your motivations”, he’s jumping around trying to prove that the group of people that EO is talking about simply doesn’t exist. Or rather, trying to get EO to prove that this group does exist, and if he doesn’t offer that proof, then they do not exist, and therefore EO’s motivations aren’t the motivations he stated. Only it’s a false argument. Whether or not such a group of people exist proves nothing about whether EO believes they exist and whom he believes belong in such a group.
Now, if we just back out of that intellectual morass for a moment and just assume EO is targeting liberals in general, then it is obvious that his “hitting too close to home” comment is just another jab at liberals.
I really, really, really, don’t give a shit about y’all’s partisan bickering. But what’s got me going is why you all are going to so damn much trouble to pretend that that’s not what’s going on.
Further, it seems bizarre to me to express doubt that such an attitude could be extant in the population. It’s a big country with lots and lots of people with different viewpoints.
Belatedly, I realize that this whole issue might merely be a bone of contention based on the partisan affiliations of the participants. I’m catching a whiff of that. Granted, I don’t know anything about Evil One, so take that for what it’s worth.
Speaking as a liberal corporate drone who enjoys repressing most of America under his thumb, I cannot help but wonder when Evil One is going to offer to polish my monocle.
I said it in my OP, what are you talking about?
Is that what they’re calling it these days? Don’t tease me, big boy.
Oh, a lot of things are extant, sure. There is certainly a wide range of wackos in the world.
But they’re not, despite Evil One’s contention, representative of anything. Rather, he’s picked some wacko(s) he can’t even point to an example of, and used that to condemn all them dam’ America-hatin’ unpatriotic hero-hatin’ libruls. Like I said, some ignorance can’t be fought - it’s too heavily armored by hatred.
Hm. I honestly had no idea about EO’s political affiliations. Lemme go back and reread the thread.
Hey, you said it, not me.
I look out my window at work and see the remains of the WTC across the West Side highway. It never ceases to amaze me that I am bombarded by less 9/11 related crap than most of the rest of the country.
Arrgh! The Star-Spangled Banner! It burns, it burns! Ahem. I mean, greetings, fellow American!
Assuming that you know what the words you’re using mean, you’re talking about an organization of skilled individuals, equipped for and engaged in the training of others to swell their ranks, and antipathetic to patriotic display because they’re committed to the idea that the U.S. is governed by evil corporate interests and should be opposed. I don’t think such an organization exists, but conspiracy theories come in all flavors, I suppose.
And do you have a list? And will you be prepared, at some point in the future, in the interest of national security, to name names? Most important of all, where are they now?
Willikers! You sure are brave to flaunt your love of country in front of them like you do.
There may be, to be sure, some cranks of idiosyncratic politics (I doubt they can be usefully fit into the usual spectrum) who mumble “bah!” when they see a boy scout and distrust everything the government does and says, and think fluoridation is an insidious plot and believe God Knows What about 9/11. But they are not a cadre, they are not part of a plot, they are not anything but a widely scattered chaos of individuals. They are barely even a “they.” And they would likely say that they do not hate heroism and sacrifice, although they might deplore the symbolic use made of it by those who have shown neither.
Fact is, there is nothing simple about patriotism, nor sacrifice either. I think that to reduce the story of Flight 93 to a “who loves America?” litmus test dishonors the passengers as much as an outright smear. Their motives cannot be whittled down to patriotism any more than their actions can be seen only as killing Arabs, handy as that would be for fomenting support for, say, a war.
If you love your country, love your flag, love your heritage and hate other Americans, you just might be missing the point.
Perhaps you are the king of something else in addition to soup.
I’m not trying to put forth any litmus tests or anything else of the sort. This thread is chock-full of motive ascribing, mind reading and general bullshit. (Go ahead. It’s a softball to say “But those are your posts…what about mine?” You’ll feel better.)
I have yet to mention liberals or any other political group. Why are all of you so quick to think that that is my “real” intention? Is it mind-reading or defensiveness?