Evolution for Dummies and Christians: Simple, Powerful Points

Great Debates
#1

It’s just common sense:

  1. The scientific community would not accept evolution unless it were soundly proved. As a theory, evolution (Darwin) is on par with plate tectonics and the Big Bang. If origins of species were not understood, science would say so, just as it does concerning black hole singularities, time before the Big Bang, and life on other planets. Science is not scheming against Christians.

  2. Evolution has no baring on the existence of God, because He could easily have created a universe complex enough to allow evolution to proceed by natural law. The presence and manifestation of God in the universe are not nullified by evolution.

  3. Almost everything is evolving according to natural law: from the expanding universe, to the death of stars, to the changing chemistry of the Earth’s atmosphere. Is life the only thing that doesn’t evolve by natural law – requiring the continual “tinker toying” of God?

Evolution is a simple, elegant theory, supported by the vast majority of scientists, an extensive fossil record, genetics, geology, biology, microevolution (laboratory and natural), and of course, common sense.

#2

Pssst! - Christians are not scheming against evolution.

#3

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Fallacy. It was common sense that the world was flat too…

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Fallacy. Appeal to popularity

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So. You just admitted that this has nothing to do with whether evolution happened or not.

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Fallacy. False Analogy. The expanding universe and the death of stars have nothing to do with the theory of evolution. One could easily believe that the universe is billions of years old, started with a big bang and that God created all the species on earth as they are when the Earth was ready.

Majority of scientists? Fallacy, see above.

Extensive fossil record? Maybe.

Genetics, biology, microevolution. These are your strong points. But you don’t bring them up. You just throw fallacies around.

Common sense. Fallacy. see above.

[sub]N.B. I am not dismissing evolution. I am just taking the arguments presented apart.[/sub]

Zev Steinhardt

#4

Just wanted to say that as a Christian ‘non-dummy’ I was taught growing up that God created evolution.

Carry on. We’ll get this room painted in no time.

#5

Ah screw it, I say we burn this asshole at the stake.

#6

Was any evidence offered to back this “lesson” up? In my experience most religious folks are of this type. They grew up being taught* certain things so they now believe them to be true. I lived in Kentucky for about 5 years total. I went to high school there, and at the time was a dedicated atheist (now I am an agnostic). Having this attitude in the heart of the bible belt got me into a lot of conversations. Typically, people just believed because everyone else they knew believed. When confronted with actual passages in the bible it was obvious that most had never even read more than a few chapters of the book (which I had read through a couple times by 7th grade thanks to catholic school in the north).

I’m not implying that jarbabyj hasn’t read the bible, only that many people never apply critical thought to the issue choosing instead to go with the group. These types are impossible to reason with because they don’t have any reasons for their belief other than social pressures. Sad really.

Evidence. It is a beautiful thing. Testability. Also great. By looking at the evidence and testing things out we have been able to build bridges, cities, fly, go to space, cure diseases, and build the internet. Religion has given us nothing tangible. It has however bred exclusiveness, hatred, war, and a safe haven for pedophiles for years.

I’ll take the method any day.

DaLovin’ Dj

*read: Told that these things are true, not presented any evidence, and threatened with eternal burning if they don’t believe said non-supported claims.

#7

If I may just comment on this bit:

Darwin did not invent evolution, he posited Natural Selection as the evolutionary mechanism responsible for speciation. He also allowed for subsidiary forms of selection, such as sexual selection, in molding certain features of organisms, which may in turn affect the speciation process.

Darwin’s ideas have been built upon and expanded in the 150-odd years since he published The Origin of Species. It is therefore erroneous to equate modern evolutionary thought with “Darwin”, or even “Darwinism”.

#8

Incorrect. It is an appeal to authority, which is not always fallacious. In this case, it is not.

I was under the impression that that was the point.

This was not a False Analogy. It was an argument from evidences in related areas of research. To admit that those things occur naturally but deny that another thing does is to commit the fallacy of Special Pleading.

I’m not commenting on evolution, just taking the presented arguments apart. :slight_smile:

#9

dalovindj, my church in new york was a study focused church. We had notes and study materials provided before each sermon, there were overhead projectors with questions and notes, and everyone, adult and child, went to sunday school classes after the lesson.

After reading the entire bible (yes, I did), having been a youth leader, an intern for my pastor for a summer, a sunday school teacher, being the child of two sunday school teachers, and being exposed to several different theories from several different religions, including non-Christian denominations, it is my belief that God created evolution.

And thanks for dragging the pedophile issue back into it, you know, since that has a lot of bearing on the discussion :rolleyes:

#10

johndcal wrote:

That’s just what Satan wants you to think!

#11

Cite?

It’s my understanding that the idea that “everyone thought the world was flat until Colombus sailed to America” is a myth. There may have been societies where the idea of a flat earth was widely accepted, but the popularity of the idea in post-Roman Europe has been greatly exagerated.

#12

Quite so. Scholars in the 15th century knew the earth was round. However, I’m sure there was some point in history when it would have been true to say that “common sense says the world is flat.”

#13

zev- Can I borrow you for a day or two? I have some pesky teachers that I wish to engage in an argument over my grades :slight_smile:

#14

Cardinal Ratzinger? Is that you?

:smiley:

#15

dalovingdj, religion, in the neverending quest of answering “Why?” invented science.

#16

I think christian anti-evlotution stance was based on humans coming from apes. I think they would all agree that something like beatles had the same ancestor but evolved to fit their environment.

I have heard scientific stances that the current apes today are so far removed from us that they couldnt be a part of the same evlotionary branch as homo-whatevers.

#17

Well, you know, you can only rationally discuss something just so many times before you have to ask, “If we just burned this one, wouldn’t make the rest of them think about reading the seven hundred threads on the subject already in the database?”

I can support the theory of Evolution, (hell even Darwinism, if I have to) while simultaneously revealing the logical farce perpetrated by ignorant cheerleaders for science a dozen times. But eventually, I get pissed. I am not asking for a Pogram, or a general cleansing of the intellectual plenum. I just want to burn this one asshole, ‘cause I am sick and tired of people who assume no one who believes anything they don’t could possibly have any intelligence. I know it won’t prove anything. I just want the emotional release.

I promise, the next anti Christian pseudo scientist gets a pass. Can I please have this one?

I’ll be good, really.

Tris

#18

Maybe we could just burn him a little bit.

#19

Depends. Can you do it without calling him an “asshole” outside the Pit? Your score so far is negative 2.

#20

Their haircuts were all remarkably similar.