Evolution of a Name into a Nickname

General Questions
#1

I am certain it’s been answered somewhere, but a search of Yahoo, Ask Jeeves and the SDMB have yielded no answer. I did a search of “The Straight Dope” and found that uncle Cecil explained Margaret to Peggy, but a conversation in the office has gone to numerous names (beyond Margaret/Peggy) and their derivatives—nicknames. To further eradicate ignorance wherever it lurks, I pose the question to the TM: How are nicknames derived? And in particular, these nicknames…

Richard – Dick?
Charles – Chuck?
Robert – Bob?

I think there were more but I’ll have to check back with the sales team who are chattering on about them. (Incidentally I couldn’t find the answers at behindthename.com, a name etymology website.)

(This is my first ever GENERAL QUESTION—Woohoo!)

#2

Well, it could just go Richard—>Rick---->Dick. Another old nickname for Richard is Dickon, and I don’t know how that fits in. The same might go for Robert---->Rob---->Bob

#3

I can understand Richard -> Rick -> Dick without too much trouble because the ‘r’ phoneme and the ‘d’ phoneme are pretty similar (IMO) with just a small change of the tongue position distinguishing them. Rob -> Bob is more of a leap, but any explanation would also probably cover William -> Will -> Bill as well.

My guess is that nicknames are generally carryovers from childish pronunciations. “My name is Philip Pirrip but … and so I’m called Pip”, for example. My nephew, named Christian, called himself “Chan Chan” when he was learning to speak and now, a college freshman, he’s still called Chan by his family. That would help account for Richard, Robert and William too, I think, since 'r’s and 'w’s are difficult sounds for children.

Finally, creating nicknames by shortening the given name (William -> Will, Samuel -> Sam) is language-dependent. In Samoan nicknames are generally shortened by dropping the initial syllable(s) rather than the final one(s): ‘Iosefa’ (Joseph) becomes ‘Sefa’; and ‘Viliamu’ (William) becomes ‘Amu’. These are Samoan nicknames for transliterated English names so it may not be definitive but I think it’s true for true Samoan names as well.

#4

This is pretty obvious. First, the parents name the kid “Robert” but say “Rob” because they’re lazy. Then they teach the kid the game that every child must learn to fit in. “The Name Game.” So they said:
“Rob, Rob, Bo, Bob…,” but pause at “Bob.” They say to one another “Honey, Bob ain’t such a bad name.” So from then on, the kid is “Bob”. Other kids like the name and demand to be called this.

Hey, it could be worse. You could be “Bananafanafofob.”

#5

I can answer for “Chuck,” a name I have some interest in. :slight_smile:

The nickname derives from the dictionary definition:

chuck v. tr. chucked, chuck·ing, chucks.
To pat or squeeze fondly or playfully, especially under the chin.
n. An affectionate pat or squeeze under the chin.

People would refer to others their cared about as “my chuck,” implying it was someone who chucked them or who they chucked. Eventually, it became a nickname for a lover.

Where does Charles come in? Probably because both began with “Ch.” Charles is a French name, and probably some Charles was called “my chuck” and it eventually attached it as a nickname.

As a wild speculation, there’s the fact that Charles I of England has a reputation as a womanizer. It’s possible that he was given the nickname and it spread.

BTW, you can’t play the “Name Game” using “Chuck.” Not on network TV, anyway. :wink:

#6

Even weirder, John --> Jack.

That dates all the way back to Shakespeare, at least (I have a play to read for tomorrow =>)

#7

The Richard --> Rick --> Dick makes sense, as observed re the similarity of D and R, especially in British dialect. Just imagine someone with extreme High London saying a word like, um, “carrier.” In American, the R in the middle is a lip/mouth shape thing. In British, the R is tapped off the soft palate, almost like a D. So, therefore, by extension, Rick --> Dick makes sense.

The one that’s always mystified me is “Margaret” --> “Peggy.” Um, what?

And then there’s Russian. The diminutive/nickname is longer than the real name, via addition of “eyovich” or something. I remember being confused by this while reading Tom Clancy (I think in Cardinal of the Kremlin). Can anybody provide more details on that?

#8

Cervaise writes:

> And then there’s Russian. The diminutive/nickname is
> longer than the real name, via addition of “eyovich” or
> something.

That’s not a nickname. That’s a patronymic. Russians (male ones anyway) automatically get a sort of middle name which is their father’s name plus “ovich.” Female ones also get this kind of middle name, but I forget if it’s based on their mother’s or their father’s name.

#9

That’s the [URL="http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_268.html"one Cecil did cover.

John to Jack was one of the others people were wondering about…looks like there’s not a lot of deep meaningful reasons, just mutations by some person or persons along the way (or at least, that’s what y’all seem to be saying).

#10

Bravo! Most Americans don’t know about the patrinymic. The female version is “ovna” and it’s used with the father’s name.

Russians do have nicknames – Sasha for Alexander, for instance. But they are only used with close friends and rarely publicly.

#11

John to Jack is mentioned in David Feldman’s Why Do Clocks Run Clockwise?, but I don’t have it with me, and don’t remember what it said.

#12

Henry to Hal and Harry has always interested me.

I’ve noticed that the diminutive/nickname is often used to refer to a son or daughter that is named after (thus has the same name as) a parent. A family can’t have two Henrys or Williams running around the house, so the father keeps the name William or Henry while the junior gets stuck with Bill or Hank. This happens quite a bit in the south where a distinguished father named William Robert passes his name along to his son who is thenceforth horribly referred to as (gulp) Billy Bob.

#13

The south is the only place where “Billy Joe” is a woman’s name. I wonder how that ever came to be?

#14

I don’t know. But I have an aunt Mickey Joe. My grandfather was apparently all set on having a son.

#15

I always thought Harold became Hal or Harry, and Henry became Harry or Hank. In my family, we have Big Al (Sr.) and Little Al (Jr.)

Here are a couple of links to earlier nickname discussions:
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=54683
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=49336

#16

I always thought that Billie was derived from Willamena–much like Bill or Billy from William and Jo came from Joan, Joanne, and/or Josephine. At least most of those nicknames are part of the original name, a wee bit easier to understand.

Gigi: Thanks for the links; I wonder why they didn’t come up when I searched “nickname”. Also, I knew a woman named Jeannie who’s nickname was Gigi. :slight_smile:

FWIW, hubby’s family has a Harold Sr., Harold Jr. (nicked: June) and Harold III (nicked: Harold Vaughn)–not a Harry in the bunch!

#17

Originally posted by Peta Tzunami
[/QUOTE]

Gigi: Thanks for the links; I wonder why they didn’t come up when I searched “nickname”. Also, I knew a woman named Jeannie who’s nickname was Gigi. :slight_smile:

FWIW, hubby’s family has a Harold Sr., Harold Jr. (nicked: June) and Harold III (nicked: Harold Vaughn)–not a Harry in the bunch! **
[/QUOTE]

These links weren’t so recent; maybe you needed to pull down “Any date” in the search menu?

We have a “Lee” (male) in our family nicknamed “Butch”–??? :slight_smile: