When I first read this thread, I have to admit that I completely agreed with stuyguy. There is no excuse for being as arrogant as those bitches who assume that just because a guy wants to talk he also wants to fuck her, and consequently using some dumbass line to get rid of him.
If that had been the issue, then I would have had a lot more sympathy. Sure, jjj might not have been playing the field, so to speak, but she wasn’t being a bitch. Fuck all of you who thought she was flirting, since she said:
Bottom line is she wasn’t trying to be rude, wasn’t trying to get rid of guys, but was just trying to make conversation. Most people probably don’t think their own jobs are worth talking about, so telling bolface lies probably makes for better conversation.
I totally understand where sutyguy is coming from. Despite his overreaction, some of you came down way too harshly. The bottom line is that stuyguy should have been more sensitive to the context of what jjjfishe was doing rather than associating her immediately with all of the ice bitches who do the shit he was talking about.
First, yojimbo – I’m not going to stick my NYC comment anywhere. I regret that that remark came off arrogantly, but how is it that everyone is so accepting of the fact that the idea of a female construction worker is so patently absurd? Everone who disagreed with me took it on blind faith that it was OBVIOUS she was joking?
(And Democritous, maybe I AM thick, but why is the idea that you drove a Tyson’s truck – a pretty common profession – so obviouly rediculous/ironis? Is it a pun on your real name or something? Your testimonial was the only one that went way, way over my head)
Let me say a couple of more random things:
Spoofe, no, I’m not a lawyer or politician. And I know that reasoned debate/discussion is not the coin of the realm here in the Pit, but it’s my defense of choice. I did not put this thread here; I would have preferred it in IMHO, but here it is and so be it. I’ll take my lumps in the form of swearwords if I have to, but that means you get hear my “lawyerly” retorts. Take that!
I want to clarify something that seems to be getting twisted – and it’s probably my fault. I do NOT think that jjj was being INTENTIONALLY hurtful (though it’s obvious that she was being intentionally dishonest). But, she was playing with fire. Maybe she does not agree (…many of her defenders certainly don’t…), but I contend that the emotional stakes are a lot higher than she knew or was willing to admit. I still stand by this point. I think it’s fine and dandy that so many of you enjoy being toyed with like this. But why do you think that everyone does? And that those of us who don’t should come up (down?) to your standards? Do you think we just want to spoil your fun?
Yojimbo, yeah, I am anal about honesty.
Spoofe (and others), you make a valid point in asking me to PROVE that someone has been harmed by jjj’s actions. Simply, I can’t. But neither can I prove that someone will definately be offended by a Jewish joke told in a mixed group of strangers. Nor that the kid who steals a stop sign to put on his dorm room wall will cause an accident. But I know a lot of shy, very trusting (you’d call them gullible) “nice” guys who’d find jjj’s behavior very distateful. Like I said, I think she’s playing with fire; will she burn someone’s house down? Maybe not. But maybe she will.
Milo, thanks for posting (sort-of) on my behalf. (And, I am VERY happy for you. Please forgive me for using you as an example, but you’re right at hand and you’re all I’ve got right now!) The sense I get from a lot of jjj’s defenders is that people like Milo (and my trusting buddies,… and me) don’t belong in your bars. We’re not entitled to socializing or companionship because we wear our egos on our sleeves. That, in my opinion, is arrogance, yojimbo. But, if you want to be that way, fine. But don’t be upset when someone calls you on it. People who speed are speeders; people who cheat on their taxes are tax cheats; and people who lie are liars.
To me this shows you as a misogynist and an all around fucker. That’s why I started the thread. You are entitled to the opinion that she was playing with fire and she could have hurt someone. Frankly I can’t see it. I see people in bars lying about their professions all the time (mostly claiming that they don’t work for dot-coms). She just happened to do it in a funny manner. No, no one thinks it incredulous that a woman could be a construction worker. She even says that most catch on. Do you call people who lie about their age icebitchs too? Again, I noticed that you weren’t nearly as harsh on Demo. I call it as I see it. Misogyinist.
Old, before I go on I’ve got to say that your crack: “Stuyguy meet reality, it’s your friend” is the most ironic (…not ironis…) thing said on this board.
Reality IS my friend… that’s what this thread is all about!
“Reality” is that jjj is NOT a pipelayer. “Reality” is that she’s someone who exploits someone else’s trusting nature for sport.
You seem to think that my silence about Democritus implies my endorsement of his actions. It does not. If it’ll make you happy to drag him in as exhibit B, I’d be happy too. jjj was here first, that’s all.
Democritus-types are very, very much part of the problem. I suspect that guys pull/pulled the phoney-job stunt more than girls, and that today’s women are just following suit. The only thing Democitus has going for him is that he seems to have 'fessed up every time, and in a sort of self-depricating way. (Also, there may be a real joke at work in the Tyson Chicken business, but again, I’m not getting it.)
Which brings up another thing that a lot of you apologists are sweeping under the rug. Oldscratch said “She even says that most catch on.”
Fine, MOST catch on. What about the rest? C’mon jjj, when all was said and done did you 'fess up in the end like Democritus? Every time? Or did a couple of “poor schmoes” tell their buddies the next day, “Hey, guess what. I met a girl zookeeper yesterday!” only to be laughed at and called a gullible asshole?
But it is not as if she was going to clubs to be cruel, she was having fun.
If the guy was reasonably intelligent, a clever conversation could have come of this and they both could have had fun.
I do it too, in a way. If someone asks me what I do, I say
“I’m a taxidermist.” Only in my case this is true, and few people ever believe me until I prove it and name the store (Flyrabbit in Allston MA) where my work is sold.
I tell the truth because i like the reactions I get, even though people rarely believe me.
I met my current boyfriend at a club, even though I never go out to clubs with the intention of meeting a new boyfriend. I told him I was a taxidermist and he said “Cool. I’m a puppeteer! So could you make me a marionette puppet out of a deer? I will paint it green and put sneakers on it!”
I don’t have anything new to add, really. I just wanted to say that I agree with those who said that this sort of things is not a big deal. Don’t take this stuff so seriously.
Yo, everybody be talkin’ 'bout Democritus!
Sorry, I guess I’m in trouble now. There really is nothing funny about being a Tyson’s Chicken truck driver, unless you’re in to petty, sophomoric, holier-than-thou humor like I am. I guess it’s a fine line. It’s like making fun of people who shop at WalMart. I guess the funny part was, I certainly didn’t look like a stereotypical trucker, hence the humor. I think that was the basis for most of the humor. No one meant to imply that there weren’t female pipe-layers, just that JJ probably doesn’t look like a stereotypical pipelayer. You can criticize it all you want, but the intentions are pure and the joke is a very lighthearted one.
Every single one of you jjj apologists should read it, especially jjj herself and oldscratch. And all you others who are telling me to lighten up and get a sense of humor, too.
Read it and see what you’re dealing with in terms of human emotion – the way Milo is utterly GUSHING cuz he got up the nerve to talk to this girl. And then there’re all the other shy Dopers coming out of the woodwork to pat him on the back for his courage.
Go ahead, read the whole thing.
Now he thinks – mind you, thinks – she’s an engineer from out of town. But what if he had overheard her conversation with her girlfriends or the orange-shirt-guy and learned that she wasn’t? That she was “[dropping] a load of junk and with a straight and serious face,” as jjj originally put it?
I’m sorry, but how you can defend such behavior is utterly beyond me.
Well Stuyguy… I was not asking and I will never ask you to take me seriously. You might as well stop reading here anyway…because the words to follow may contain a bit of humor. Feel free to believe anything I say.
Disclaimer: Keep in mind that any future post made by jjjfishe may be made in jest.
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I do admit it’s a little cruel. I haven’t done it since I was younger. I don’t think that those people having done it deserve to be called “mind-fucking idiots” though. That’s a little drastic and way out of line.
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Bear_Nenno, Zette, yojimbo and xizor…stick with me…I’m going in!
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I was sixteen at the time I said those things…yes…sixteen. Any guy with half a brain could figure out that a sixteen year old girl was not a pipelayer. As I said in an earlier post, most of the guys I’ve met are only interested in getting layed that night. They absolutely have no interest in anything a girl says. So, why not have some fun with it. I think it’s far better than blowing them off and acting like a snob - like a lot of girls will do. At least I do recognize their existance…and give them a conversation.
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hehehe…hey…I have nothing against girl pipelayers…that would be an awesome job. I am not being sexually discriminatory…which is what you seem to be implying as well. If a guy is interested enough he will go after the woman and the real information about her profession will rise sooner or later. Since it’s typically the guy pursuing the girl then it’s the girls job to weed out all the men that don’t meet up to her standards. (If the situations were reversed…I’d say the same) If a sense of humor is what she is looking for then she may try the outrageous profession tactic. His response may make or break a future relationship.
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Thanks Oldscratch… I definitely put you at the top of my, “Most Doper I’d like to meet and have a cup of coffee with” list.
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Ok…there is definitely a fallacy in this one. Making up a profession and telling a stranger the wrong time or directions are completely different.
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I am not uncomfortable with a stranger’s questions. Body language and tone of voice can provide a lot of information. A girl knows if a guy is sincerely interested in her or if a guy just wants to get down her pants. I didn’t make up professions for every single guy I met. With some of them, I just felt like joking around. Stuyguy…you don’t seem to have much faith in a guy being able to tell the difference between fact and fiction.
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The already-stressful relationship? Be young…have fun…live a little.
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Oldscratch is my hero.
I don’t think there was a single guy that believed that I was a carnie or a mechanic. I could only come up with so much stuff…until I started to look like an idiot - which I didn’t care!! It was great conversation.
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Stuyguy…you are getting this issue confused with rejections. Telling a guy a false profession is not rejection. Telling a guy to “fuck off” is rejection. In no way did I ever intend to make a guy feel small by him believing I was a pipelayer. It was all in fun and completely obvious I didn’t know shit about pipelaying.
I think the thing about this is that our perceptions are different. You are a guy with tender feelings and I am a girl who doesn’t take things seriously. I know when to be serious and I know when to have fun.
clubs & bars = dancing and fun.
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Stuyguy… “Reality” is that people like to have fun.
Thanks Jack…couldn’t have put it better myself.
Turpentine:…wow…you’re a taxidermist. That’s cool!
Maeglin: you said, “Fuck all of you who thought she was flirting.” Yikes…How does not intending to meet anyone have anything to do with flirting? We {the girls} never approached the guys. We weren’t going to the club with the intention of meeting guys. We went with the intention to dance and have fun. From prior experience, we knew that guys would come up and try to hit on us. Which, in this event, we came up with the profession thing. It was way nicer than blowing them off. We were never rude about anything we said to a guy. If in fact the guy did meet our standards and was fun to talk to then we continued an honest relationship.
Yojimbo: You said, “it was obvious it was a joke and they were not even that good at it.” Hehehe…yeah…this sure is true. We were the worst! Thanks for taking up for me as well!
Milossarian: You said, “I agree stuyguy was harsh. But isn’t it kind of cold and mean to have a laugh at a guy’s expense because he makes the critical mistake of expressing interest in you.”
We never laughed at the guy. We were merely amusing ourselves and when the guys caught along…we amused them.
Lunasea: That is awesome how you met your future husband at a bar. You are the first person that I know who actually has.
Thank you Spoofe, Silo, Lexicon, and Aenea
Xizor: That prostitute line is a funny one!
Mr. Cynical: I’ll agree with you too! People perceive things differently. Doesn’t mean they are necessarily right or wrong. People just have different interpretations about life.
jjj, it seems that you excuse everything you did (do?) in the name of fun.
“You are a guy with tender feelings and I am a girl who doesn’t take things seriously. I know when to be serious and I know when to have fun.”
But it was YOUR fun. Sure, you say it was EVERYBODY’S fun, but with people in this world who think that the very act of approaching a woman is cause for a bravery medal, I think you’re presuming more than you’re entitled to. And frankly I don’t trust the sensibilities of a sixteen year-old “life-is-fun,-now-don’t-bother-me-with-the-details” girl when she assures me that no one’s emotions are being trampled on, especially given your dupes… sixteen to twenty year-old males, I presume. Hardly wizened men of the world with steady emotional compasses.
Look, we’re probably never going to agree here. I still think that what you did is reprehensible. You lied for sport. In my book that puts you right behind schoolyard bullies and in front of people who cut lines.
(BTW, you gotta watch out for those people who cut lines. Every time I check my list they get a little higher. Hmm, wonder why that is.)
aenea: Y’know, I was going to ask you about that the first time I met you, but I figured that either A) it was just glued/stuck on, and it’d come off as a stupid question or B) it actually was a strange new type of piercing, and I’d get to listen to a story involving needles and drill bits and fishhooks, which would have caused my skin to actually crawl off of my body, steal my car keys, slither out of the restaurant and lock itself in my car for the rest of the evening.
But in the vein of “that thing you did to me was horrible… let’s do it to someone else!” I kindly suggest that the next time someone asks, inform them that you actually had a small socket drilled into your skull, and the jewel is the setpiece on a small screw. Tell them that if they look real close, they can see the crosshairs on the jewel where phillip’s-head fits in.
John, do you know that people really DO what you’re describing? That is, have holes and screw-sockets drilled into their living (duh…) skulls! I could not believe it until I saw a news report describing it. Yikes!
People ask me about that all the time, it’s sure not a silly question. And I only bullshit the gullible ones. Why StuGuy might ask? Because it’s fun, I think. If you actually took the time to look at it and think about it - there is no possible way I could have that particular piercing done.
Actually I have talked to several parents who love this idea for their kids as an alternative to piercing. “Try it this way for a while, and if you still really want it in 6 months, well maybe”, or something like that.
First, stuyguy, your link linked back to this link (how many other times can I use the word link :rolleyes: ) link. Anyway, could you repost with the correct one. then I’ll read it and comment on it.
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Although there are some exceptions. Actions taken in the name of fun can more easily be excused. If players dump a bucket of gatorade over a coach for fun, it’s ok. If they do it to be mean and cruel, it’s not. Got it?
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Let’s see.
3 situations.
Aproach extremely attractive woman. She tells me to fuck off in condescending tone.
Aproach extremely attractive woman. She tells me. Sorry, not really interested.
Aproach extremely attractive woman. She actually talks to me and engagfes me, with fake story of how she’s an actuary. If I have half a brain I figure out she’s lying and continue chating with her, or not.
I (and the rest of humanity whose not hung up on a hatred of women in general) will choose numba 3.
As for my reality comment, what I meant by it is you are ignoring the reality of what happens in everyday life to lay your twisted ideas about women on jjjfishe and the rest of us.
and jjfishe. I’m utting this in my sig line. "Oldscratch is my hero. "
Stuyguy - you have got issues. Seriously, after reading this whole damn thread that is about all I can conclude.
Context here is everything. If you were in school, church, or at a family gathering, and you asked a person you were talking with their profession, you would expect and honest answer.
If you are at a club, and you approach a group of young people at a table (young enough to have a profession and be at a club, so I think the giggling 16 year old thing is out) then you expect them to play with you.
If the person doing the approaching is so fragile that they will be emotionally damaged by almost any reply other than: “I take your interest in me seriously and will issue a reply in due time”, then they need to stay at the school, church, or family function where they are less likely to come to harm.
Getting to know people in informal settings like clubs and bars involves games. Since instantaneous mutual interest is an unlikely occurance, these games involve rejection and social embarassment. It always has. It always will. Get over it. Seriously, if the anger (appearant in your responses) is real to what I think most people consider fairly normal behaviour in the context presented, then you need either to avoid those situations (or seek professional help.)
