You should know by now that I’m always right stuyguy.
So I read the thread. Maybe she wasn’t an engineer, maybe she hated hockey and only told him cause she thought he was cute. At least she talked to him, which is what jjfishe and her friends did. (BTW, i feel really weird defending you and trying to put motivations for your actions here jjjfishe. If i say to much let me know) Nothing in that thread changes my opinion of jjjfishe or you. I also noticed some crude comments on breats in the thread. I noticed you didn’t comment on them with the venom you commented on jjfishe’s words. I also noticed that you didn’t comment on the males who did similar things that jjfishe did in the original thread. Once again I state that you singled her out because she is female. You have not offered any proof otherwise. I’m forced to believe you a misogyinst of the worst sort. Frankly, you sicken me.
Oldscratch. Please stop trying to play the misogyinst card with me (and I hope you spelled the m-word right, cause I c&p’ed it from your post). I’ve explained the rationale of my value system, and though you’re entitled to not agree with my logic, it is not misogyinstic – and you know it. Open another thread about breasts, and maybe I’ll abandon this one and move there. Meanwhile I’ve got my hands full w/this here.
Don, I agree that people play games in clubs and bars. My issue is that I don’t like gameplayers because I think they are fundamentally cruel and arrogant. I also think it is hypocritical to behave one way in the workplace and another in a bar. I know that no one here agrees with me but that is my opinion, and as Mr. Cynical sez, I’m entitled to it.
Don, you say “…these games involve rejection and social embarassment. It always has. It always will.” Sorry, but I hope you’re wrong there. (As I get on my soapbox…) There has been a lot of unacceptable behavior that has been wiped out of society because people like me have flown in the face of convention to say “this is undignified and it should stop.” Pinching waitresses, unequal pay for equal work, and telling ethnic jokes are three that come to mind that were once rationalized with the “always has, always will” argument. (Are they gone? No. But the tide of social conduct is flowing against them.) Sorry, but I think honest interpersonal social behavior in all situations is not too much to ask.
Wow, yet another poster that can read my mind. Sure are a lot of you on this board. Go! Go now! A whole world needs use of your amazing powers! :rolleyes:
I wouldn’t call you misogynistic if I didn’t believe it. I’m not one to throw insults around lightly. I firmly believe that you have issues with women and I believe that your posts clearly show it. Most people who have responded to this thread agree with me. Where is my evidence? The fact that you would fly off the handle and personally insult a woman that way about doing those acts, at the same time you didn’t comment on a mans post that admited to doing the same thing. I have no problem with you not liking what jjjfishe did. That’s your opinion. It’s the way that you expressed it that I have a problem with.
Also, I want to retract a statement. You do not sicken me. Your words at this momment do.
Oldscratch, I’ll make you a deal… open a thread about YOUR BEHAVIOR and I promise to fly off the handle, okay? I’ll call you worse than jjj if you like. And if you didn’t have such a cool name I might actually mean it, too.
… I can relate to jjjfishe’s actions. Saying “I’ll call you” when you won’t is a cruel lie. Giving out the local pizza place’s number instead of saying, “No, you can’t have my number” is a cruel lie. Telling a stranger that you tame lions for a living is a lark – unless they want you to tame that lion that just creeped on to the dance floor.
When some total stranger in a bar asks my breasts what I do for a living, I respond, “Well, my boobs are on stand-by for eventual breastfeeding but the rest of me is a <insert occupation here>.”
I told my current boyfriend I was independently wealthy becasue my Dad invented the Pet Rock. He earnestly pretended to believe me and asked if he could live off my inheritance. Thank God for men with a sense of humour.
Hey stuyguy… did you know that I was a clinical psychologist. If you need someone to talk to… hey…I’m here for you buddy. 
Stuyguy, you were one of those kids that assumed people were having fun at your expense when they were laughing in school, huh?
Just because JJJ wound up chuckling, it doesn’t mean it was at someone else’s expense, dickhead.
And, finally, if any guy is going to take it as a personal insult if a girl isn’t entirely open and honest the second he meets her (especially about something as mundane and harmless as her profession), that’s a guy that probably has problems to begin with.
Okay, I just had to come back here and say that I was just kickin’ around the sdpeoplepages, and I just saw jjj’s pic.
I just have to ask:
How inna hell can any man in his right mind who is not gay possibly think that talking and laughing and flirting and shit with her in a bar would suck?
How is that even remotely fuckin’ possible?
If I saw jjj in a bar, and she was looking approachable and all that (read: having a good time) I would walk up and say hi. Then she’d tell me she was a wrecking ball operator, and I’d say I was a dye calibrationist for a major sticker manufacturer called smiley-face.
Bickity-bam! We’re hangin out and having a good time. What’s wrong with that?
Oh yeah, I’d just like to add:
Pant, drool, AAAAA-aAAWHHHOOOOOOOOO!!! <wolf-whistle!>
There is obviously no way to tell you that while you do have a point about the way certain people treat other people it has nothing to do with the situation described .
You where out of order and that is that IMO . I and many other people have argued with you not because we are apologists but because you where out of line .
Please try to look at the situation as described and not with your obviously slanted viewpoint . You are seeing things that just aren’t there .
At the end of the day you posted personal insults in a thread that wasn’t looking for that kind of bullshit and you where called on it .
I only like banging my head against a wall for so long so I’m going to stop now .
p.s. Good call Lexicon 
Hey jjj don’t suppose you’re holidaying in Ireland soon are you ? We hold great Dopefest over here
I have been lurking on this thread for a while, and I have to admit, on some level, I do understand where stuyguy is coming from.
I think there have been scenarios where young women come into clubs, knowing that they’re cute, knowing that guys will hit on them, and these young women just enjoy messing with these guys. At the guys’ expense. I totally see that scenario, and I am with stuyguy in being appalled by it.
However, after much discussion here, I just don’t see jjj’s behavior as fitting that scenario. I can see how it might have been mistaken for that at first, but not after all this elaboration, and discussion. For one thing, she was so young. Too young to be seriously be considered a pipelayer, or whatever. Another thing, if we are to believe her (and I do) she was too light-hearted and giggly about her pretense - and she did TALK to the guys, not snotty, not icy, she “bullshitted” (that’s what I call it) with them. Hey, I have bullshitted with guys myself, and I know I’m not trying to be cruel to them. (And trust me, I am not some “cute young thing” who enjoys messing with guys’ emotions.) Bullshitting with people is fun, harmless, and yeah, they DO know you are doing it. If they are up to speed, they bullshit right back. And it could be the start of a beautiful relationship.
With all due respect, stuyguy, I actually do know where you are coming from. But I think in this specific instance, you are barking up the wrong tree.
While everyone’s entitled to their opinions, I think the criticism that’s been leveled against jjjfishe is WAY, WAY out of proportion.
I’m not going to say that what she did wasn’t wrong on some extremely moralistic and idealistic level. And she herself admits that her actions were “a little cruel”. Even if the lie is relatively harmless, sure, it’s still a lie, and not exactly the most mature thing to do.
But let’s have a little perspective here! She’s already said that she’s grown up since then and learned the error of her ways.
I think the situation can be summed up pretty succinctly by excerpting two things that she’s said:
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by jjjfishe *
**
**
She was 16 years old! And not rude to the guys at all? I don’t see this as a major transgression–no more so than cutting class. Yes, it’s on some level dishonest–but it’s as dishonest as saying your dog ate your homework. :rolleyes:
How many people here weren’t guilty of doing something equally as “heinous” or worse, at the ripe old age of sixteen? Again, she wasn’t 100% honest with the people she was socializing with–but she was hardly laughing at them or mocking them and she specifically says she wasn’t rude to them.
Sheesh–without wishing to sound arrogant, I was considered a pretty good kid (though I was certainly no angel). But when I was 16, I did things at least as immature and selfish on a weekly basis. **Stuyguy ** himself likens her behavior to someone who cuts lines. Cuts lines at 16 years old? Most parents would be RELIEVED to find out that this is the type of stunt that their 16 year olds pulled!
Jessica, posting to the pit is not normally my style. (I don’t particularly enjoy the flaming aspect and tend only to post to relatively “calm” pit topics) I had intended to e-mail you privately and give you my opinion that your transgressions were hardly the stuff that mortal sins were made of, but you don’t have an e-mail address listed, and I did feel, as someone friendly to you, that I should say something in your support: Again, a 16 year old flirting and telling white lies which (I feel) are not designed to hurt or embarrass anyone? Very, very mild on the cruelty scale, not particularly mature, but not nearly anything deserving of the vituperativeness of some of the commentary.
And the important thing is, you’ve learned the error of your ways.
For whatever it’s worth, I’ve always liked you, and nothing in this thread or the other changes my opinion of you. And not to hijack the thread, but I AM one of these people that’s been taken advantage of, at times badly, by a “lady” or two. I would NOT be your friend if I thought you were a manipulative bitch, to say the least, no matter how attractive your people pages picture (alliterative, huh?) is.
DRY… you amaze me.
yeah…the Pit is sort of uncharted waters for me. I’m not used to being in here. These flames sure do get hot. Thanks for everything you said, especially the “I would NOT be your friend if I thought you were a manipulative bitch, to say the least, no matter how attractive your people pages picture is” part. There is more to me than a pretty face…and thank you for realizing it! I put you on top of my “most guy I’d like to meet and treat to dinner and a beer with” list.
You’d never believe the things I did when I was 16. I guess according to stuyguy I would be a very, very, horrible person [shudder]. I think stuyguy doesn’t realize that over time people change. Some do quite dramatically so.
And stuyguy, I hope to see you in the pit more often :rolleyes:
Hey I just realized jjjfishe’s post is “on top of” mine.
“My bum is on the Silo, my bum is on the Silo…”
It’s a new day, and I’ve had a chance to clear my thoughts a bit.
I have little to add to my previous posts, and I have no desire to answer all the namecalling that’s been levelled at me throughout this thread. Furthermore, I accept the fact that I’m part of a very, very small minority here.
A thought did occur to me last night that I do want to throw out there before I move on to less hostile fora. It is not a criticism; it is more like an observation, or a theory.
I wondered WHY this practice of inventing phony jobs was so common and so ferociously defended or condoned.
(Yes, I confess, I was startled by the number of posters who felt this way.) I felt that the explanation “to start a good, fun conversation” had a hollow ring to it; it sounded like a half-truth at best.
Then it occurred to me. (Some of the posters hinted at it, but I was so concerned about the gullible guys that I did not pick up on it.) I think – mind you, it’s only my theory – that people make up wild jobs because they’re ashamed to admit their real jobs. By which I mean ordinary real jobs. Let’s face it, how many MTV VJ’s or computer game designers do you think lie about what they do? Very few, I imagine.
I think a lot of people think their job is boring and ordinary, and strangers will think that they’re boring and ordinary too. Telling somebody a wild, improbable answer that derails the topic is the way they spare themselves from having to say “I’m just a fill-in-the-blank.”
If that’s true, I think that’s a shame. I think that holding ANY honest job – or even no job – is nothing to be embarassed about. My parents taught me that there is dignity in all work and that some pretty extraordinary people have pretty ordinary jobs.
I think that today’s society mocks ordinariness. And this trend is eroding our humanity and our values, especially in schools where, yes, sixteen year-olds – and even younger kids – blindly buy into it.
This is probably the “reality” that oldscratch wanted me to meet. Well I guess I’ve met it, os. But that still doesn’t mean I like it, or accept it, or condone the actions of people who wink at it.
shakes her head
Stuyguy, you positvely amaze me.
I was going to list all the reasons why, but in order to save room and time, I’m not going to quote all of your posts.
I wasn’t even going to say anything here until the last thing you said. I mean, wow. I thought we were here to fight ignorance, but you are more than happy to advertise your own special brand.
Ok, maybe since no one else is getting through to you, I’ll try it again.
jjfishe, oldscratch, you, me, or anybody else owes exactly JACK SHIT to ANY stranger they meet in a bar. It has nothing to do with who or what they do or do not respect. Do you understand that? The women who turn you down on a weekly basis does not OWE you anything. The rest of the woman-kind doesn’t owe you ANYTHING because you are shot down at bars. And leveling your sexual frustrations at a girl on a MB, a girl you will never meet, a girl who never turned YOU down, is not appropriate.
Hey Stuyguy! What are you doing–auditioning for the position of Ayatollah of Iran?
Let’s say you start up a conversation with a sour chick in the corner of a club, and she starts telling you how all men suck. What do you conclude about her–that she’s a sick bigot? Or maybe you assume instead that her boyfriend dumped her, and she needs a little time to get over it?
You start up a conversation with a hot-looking chick at the bar, and she mentions that you’re a goodlooking guy. What do you conclude–that she’s an oversexed, vile whore? Or maybe that it’s nice to hear a compliment from a good-looking babe?
You start up a conversation with a crowd of giddy, laughing 16-year-olds nursing cokes at a table, and you can’t get a straight answer from any of them. What do you conclude–that they’re cruel, mind-fucking idiot liars? Or maybe that there’s no harm in being young and silly, because adulthood and disillusionment come all too soon?
Clubs tend to be a place for people to let down their hair a bit and you’ll run into all kinds of different behaviors that can either be construed as a crime against humanity or simply as harmless and human. How you construe their behavior says more about you than it does about them.
My advice to you: Take people as they come and give them the benefit of the doubt. If you don’t like their company, move on and find company more suitable to your own current mood and values. You’re going to be a lonely, bitter fellow all your life if you’re going to run around insulting and pointing your finger at everyone who doesn’t live life according to your individual values and expectations.
JTR that was a great post .
stuyguy:
I give up. You are clueless. Purposely so.