Explain the Allure of Japanese RPGs

Cafe Society
21

I agree with the poster who said the golden age of console style RPGs was the SNES through PSX era. So many great games that still hold up pretty well today.

Xenosaga was a really cool movie. Great story, some really ‘neat things’, as SPOOFE calls them. The actual ‘playing’ was even pretty well done. It just would have been much nicer if I could have done more of the playing as the game went along. There is something to be said for having a beautiful, movie-esque story - I just wish this game could have been about twice as long as it actually was in terms of actual playing. I haven’t tried it, but I imagine I could probably get through it in 20 hours or less if I played through a second time and skipped the cutscenes, with fairly comprehensive completion of side quests and without trying too hard.

Star Ocean: Till the End of Time is probably my favorite of the new school PS2 RPGs, so far. Even if the story got really cliched and irksome at the very end of the main story arc, the cutscenes were integrated into actually playing the game a lot better, I think. Not as good as SO2 was, but a very fun game nonetheless. And one at least twice as long as Xenosaga in terms of actual time played to complete, minus cutscene time :slight_smile:

-K.

22

The allure of RPGs can be explained with two words: the experience. Or, to clarify a bit more, the wonder of seeing a whole new world and following the stories of the main characters. Add some good music and gameplay to this and you have something that’s about as absorbing as a good book IMHO. As long as it isn’t bogged down with too many cutscenes and crap like that. That’s where the PSX and earlier RPGs really shine: great gamplay with great stories. It’s true that the later RPGs have begun to focus too much on graphics and cutscenes and not enough on story (coughcoughFFXcough). And whatever happened to actual world maps and optional characters? Grrr.

I’m pretty sure most of the population doesn’t get FFVII on their first go through. It took me three times to actually get the whole thing. Now it’s my favorite game ever. But that’s all I’m saying about it. You don’t want to see me get into rabid fangirl mode. It’s scary. :stuck_out_tongue:

23

I haven’t made it through my first go yet. I have a PC version, and there is no way I could get through that game on my own without a walkthrough. But it’s difficult to look up Gamefaqs when you’re using your comptuer, which you need to get to the walkthrough, to play the game. (Although the real reason I’ve stopped, for now, is the minigames. Hate 'em).

I thought of this after my last post, and I’ll say it now–RPGs haven’t really changed that much. There’s the advanced graphics and everything (Yuna’s sending dance, anyone?), but all RPGs since the dawn of the console have revolved getting from plot point to plot point. Sure, now we have the FMVs, but they’re really just an dressing up of the lengthy chats and explanations we’ve been seeing all along. Pre-PSX FFs have some good cutscenes, they just aren’t as pretty.

24

Goodness, I don’t know why I’m boxing this because EVERYONE’s played it, but then scene in FF4 when:

the Big Whale returns to earth and you are too late to stop the Giant of Babil from appearing, and then the tanks and the airships show up to save the day

is still totally one of my favorite “cut scenes” from a FF :slight_smile:

25

Generally, I try to appreciate a game for what it is, not what I want it to be. I don’t care if a game is too much like a movie, so long as it’s a good movie. FFX was a pretty good movie. Also, a pretty good game. The balance between the two elements was a bit on the far side of what I prefer, but it was still a fantastic game taken on its own merits.

26

I really like Japanese (which I think of as “console”) RPGs, although I agree with D_Odds and others that I’m not really “role-playing” in the sense I grew up with, since I’m not deciding what role I want to play, or making my own decisions about how the story should come out.

As Johnny_Angel points out, it’s a tradeoff – I enjoy the fact that I am experiencing a tightly scripted story and playing a role in it, even if that role is predetermined. The cutscenes are the reward, where you get to see moments of the story played out. Then again, I like anime, so I’m used to Japanese storytelling, which may give me an advantage.

I also really like Western computer RPGs, like Fallout and Morrowind, that give me a lot of freedom make my own decisions – but don’t really consider the two genres to have much in common.

27

Whoa, hold it right there chief. I like Katamari Damacy and it doesn’t get on my nerves like FinalXenoOceanSagaX-13

28

that is a good thing.

29

I liked Japanese/console RPGs, but two things have happened:

(1) I’ve gotten older and shudder more responsible, and just don’t have the time to sit down and commit to a console RPG (plus, when I turn on the PS2, it sends a secret signal to my son wherever he is, and within seconds he wants to play a fighting game, which I will undoubtedly lose).

(2) The console RPGs have opted for longer and longer cutscenes. I like cutscenes, but if I get 30-45 minutes to play, I want to spend most of it playing, not just watching (or worrying about losing my progress after another long cut scene and a boss battle and there is no save point to be found until you sit through two more cut scenes and the missus needs to be picked up NOW).

Now, eh. I just don’t have the same desire to run home and play FFX. I’d rather get on City of Heroes or Sid Meier’s Pirates!, or even run through the linear Baldur’s Gate or Neverwinter Nights again.

30

Halo had a great story in campaign mode, and you definitely had justified reason in killing the things you were killing. Excellent cutscenes were interspersed throughout, none longer than 5 minutes long, and the game always saved immediately after any cutscene, so there was no frustration.

Halo 2 seems to be more of the same high quality, though the levels are less linear, which is a bad thing, and the cutscenes have ballooned up to near 10 minutes, which is also a bad thing. Oh well, dual wielding is cool enough to offset that. Not to mention online play.

31

I’m a frustrated gamer. I generally dislike console RPGs, and I played them from way back when: starting with early PCs and consoles (C=64 and Intellivision, anyone?), through to vanished consoles like the Neo-geo and Jaguar, and to the predecessors of today’s cutting-edge hardware. I remember the scripted RPGs that were actually fun, but none of these games are even RPGs to begin with, as argued in this old thread.

If there’s one thing I can’t stand after too many years of exposure it’s the young men who look like girls and who wave around swords bigger and thicker than they are. Oh, and they have weird-coloured hair. There’s enough of that on TV, why does it have to pollute my other hardware?

I don’t think it’s the linear storyline that ruins these games (a linear storyline can be thoroughly enjoyable in other genres, like FPS), rather I think it is the execution and the lack of playability in between those frequent video clips – everyone loves nice video, but why even bother with the game? The landmark Resident Evil series was very linear, but highly immersive and enjoyable because of the innovation and skilful execution involved. It generated suspense and excitement in a way that watching anime video clips of girlie-looking men simply doesn’t. It relied on skill at the controls without being obnoxiously annoying and restrictive. Obviously it did not pretend to be an RPG, but I’m just pointing out that Japanese game developers actually have wads of skill and potential when they move away from the formulaic console RPG / lame anime approach.

An interesting RPG from a couple years ago is Arx Fatalis. It used the visually grabbing first person point of view with its potential for immersive action, and piled on RPG elements such as XP, stats, armour, equipment, magic, quests, etc (in fact, the magic system is brilliant, it’s probably the first game to use mouse gestures for spell-casting, which makes hurling that ball of fire rather more interesting than the standard). if you haven’t heard of this game, think of the oldie Ultima Underworld on steroids. Regarding the story development. it was rather linear, but you could explore pretty much the entire game world in any order you wanted, if you wished. Pretty good graphics with rich textures, excellent sound quality (the atmospheric moans and “drip-drip” in the goblin dungeon are excellent). Imagine Morrowind on a smaller budget, with less hassle, better graphics and sound, and a few more narrative restrictions (you can be an evil murdering thieving bastard if you want, but can’t quite become a vampire or a werewolf). A truly interesting experiment–look out for the sequel soon, which is expected to improve on the flaws of its predecessor.

Knights of the Old Republic was also interesting, as someone mentioned. It wasn’t as much immersive fun as its cousin Jedi Knight games, but it allowed you to make a significant range of choices regarding characters, travelling, and storyline, and allowed you to develop as you wished that classic RPG staple: your adventuring party. While it wasn’t an RPG in the purest sense of the word, it was also not the totally scripted Japanese approach, and did not rely on predetermined character and story progression.

I see essentially little difference between the classic Don Bluth laser disc arcade games (Dragon’s Lair) and console RPGs today. It’s all about engaging in minimal action when cued and then enjoying the subsequent visual display. Don Bluth was cool in the 80s, but come on, today we have the ability to enjoy rather more complex products than that, such as those involving complex light-saber combat between plot-lines! If I want to watch some anime I have a fine collection in my DVD library.

I also gave up on on-line RPGs, even though I once thought they’d be promising. There just doesn’t seem to be any MMORPG out there that is properly immersive – there’s always some idiot using SMS language and power-gaming instead of just enjoying the game and, you know, playing a role. I’ve given up paying subscription fees for that crap, no matter how good the engine.

The best RPG I’ve ever played on the Internet remains the oldest I’ve ever tried, and the one I recommend (without any success) to everyone every chance I get: Armageddon MUD (www.armageddon.org). Saw it first in 1992, have loved it more and more ever since, and in spite of having played it for years it never gets old. Now THAT is a role-playing game – but it sucks up a lot of life, and has no flashy graphics (or any graphics at all). In spite of this, it has managed to remain consistently in my top five list for well over a decade.