Explain to me the appeal of WoW, Second Life, etc.

I wasn’t aware that my inability to kill a dragon by shooting lightning bolts out of my hands was due to legislation. I’m going to write to my congressman immediately, to have this law overturned.

Speaking seriously, I’m not entirely sure what you’re asking about. You mention two online computer games in the thread title, but your OP seems to be more about video games in general. What’s odd is that you seem to be under the impression that video games rely less on reflexes and hand-and-eye coordination, when the fact is that, since the heydays of Super Mario Brothers and Tetris, twitch-intensive games have almost entirely dominated the gaming market. When the first Nintendo system came out, two of the biggest genres in computer gaming were adventure games, which were entirely story and character driven interactive fictions, and turn-based strategy, which were the electronic equivalent of a table-top board game. Both genres are now very much niche-oriented, having been edged out by generations of first person shooters, Mario-style platform jumpers, sports simulations, racing games, and real-time strategy. Most of these games are, as you said, about “killing time, hand-eye coordination, and developing certain reflexes.” Very few of them have any recognizable connection to the real world, and those that do, reflect a segment of the real world that most people have neither the ability nor the inclination to visit in real life: storming the beaches of Normandy, for example, or illegal street racing through major metropolitan areas. Most, though, are out-and-out fantasies: fighting aliens, demons, zombies, or what-have-you. The appeal of these is the same as the appeal of any movie or book based on the same genre. If it’s fun to watch Luke Skywalker blow up the Death Star, then it’s not hard to figure out that it would also be fun to be Luke Skywalker, blowing up the Death Star.

There are a few games that are genuine real-world, mundane simulations. The Sims, for example, is an outrageously popular game that simulates buying a house, furnishing it, raising a family, and going to work. I have absolutely no idea what the appeal of this game is. I played it once, and found it to be the dullest thing I’ve ever seen passed off as entertainment. Second Life, which I’ve never played, is apparently similar to this, but at least includes a social aspect which I can understand.

World of Warcraft is a different kettle of fish entirely. It’s high fantasy, for starters, with orcs, elves, dragons, wizards, etc. The appeal, on a narrative level, is that same as that of Lord of the Rings or any other fantasy novel/movie setting. The fantasy role-playing game has been a video game staple practically since the invention of the medium. The appeal of the massively multiplayer online RPG is that it brings back the social aspect that was the original draw of the table-top Dungeons and Dragons, the game that was the direct inspiration for virtually all computer RPGs. On top of that, the game itself is simply huge. I’ve been playing it regularly since its inception, and I still haven’t seen all the original content. The gameplay itself is a combination of basic strategy with some degree of good timing and reflexes. Each character has dozens of different abilities, and figuring out the best combination of abilities to use against each particular foe, and triggering them fast enough to avoid being killed, is enjoyable in itself. It also keys off of the natural human tendency towards acquistiveness. There’s a staggering amount of stuff to get in the game, and there’s a definite sense of satisfaction when you get a shiny new magic broadsword, or learn a new way of blasting your enemies into tiny little bits.

I couldn’t tell you off the top of my head, but I do know he has Cruiser 5, Mining 5, Gunnery 5, and I think a few other skills at 5. I was moving into the Tech 2 skills when I put the game down. I never went for PvP, so the combat skills are functional for NPC hunting from frigates to cruisers, and the character is damned good at mining, if I may say so. Cruiser 5 + Mining 5 + Osprey = Whole damn load of ore being moved. :smiley: Also some refining skill.

Not sure I’m looking to pass the character along, though. That sort of practice is a bit unsettling to me, to be honest, mostly because I tend to associate with my characters even after I’ve stopped playing. I’d have no compunctions about turning over his fleet of ships and assorted goodies, though.

Heh.I never saw that one; was it part of the Hunter Versus World Series? A few months ago a video out of a warlock soloing Hydross- I forget how long it took her, but it was pretty neat.
Oh, the size of the community is also attractive to me (getting back to why we play). It’s nice to get acquainted with my server’s community and get to know who the “famous” and interesting guilds and characters are. This is especially useful for my husband and I, who sometimes end up working odd hours, preventing us from doing as much normal socialziing as we’d like.

I love that in an MMO community a player can attain a sort of legendary status. Back when I was playing Planetside, certain names would catch my eye and I’d do everything I could to kill them for bragging rights. :smiley: Usually didn’t work, but it was fun trying.

Guild Wars has no subscription. You just have to buy the expansions when they come out if you want the new character classes and content. If you don’t then you can play with just the original box set for free.
As an aside (hopefully not to much of a hijack), I’ve heard that Pirates of the Burning Sea is a lot like Eve Online…very similar kind of game (well, similar game play style I guess). Any of you Eve Online people thinking about giving it a try? I understand it’s a thinking mans game…not for MMO noobies or the faint at heart.

-XT

Woah. I missed this until xtisme quoted it. Since when?

This I have to see.

The Sims is more of a game for girls. If you’re a guy, try luring a Sim into a room and delete the door. Then wait…

Or see if you can get 2 female Sims to start a relationship.

The game is a sandbox, you get out of it what you put into it.

Speaking solely of World of Warcraft here, I find that the appeal is different to everybody. For example:

To my son, it’s all about the lore. It’s almost like a book he can interact with. He knows all of the characters and their backstories. He’ll spend hours trying to glitch his way into “forbidden” areas of the game, and he thoroughly enjoys exploring new areas in-game to see how well they jive with the lore. He’s usually just as happy playing solo, but he’s fine with grouping up for a quest now and then.

To my son-in-law, it’s all about the interaction with others. His guild uses voice chat for everything, and they carefully fine-tune their strategies and tactics to work together flawlessly for the big battles. He wants to perform his role as well as possible, and his biggest kick is seeing himself in the #1 position on the damage meters after a raid. He’s into the end-game (what you do after you hit level 70).

For me, I enjoy the challenge of solo play over my head. I actually play my maxed-out level 70 less than I play the lower-level characters. I like taking on multiple bad guys simultaneously that are higher level than me, just to see if I can do it. I like running quest chains that I’m barely high-enough level to do. Unlike the rigidly-structured team play my son-in-law goes for, I like the casual play with friends. Sometimes it’s a group of us in the same room (LAN party) and sometimes we’re scattered about. We all know each other in real life, and it’s like having a poker party with friends: it’s more about doing something with your friends than it is about the WoW (or poker, or whatever).

I’ve played a lot of videogames over the years (I bought one of the first standalone Pong consoles), and nothing has ever held my interest as long as WoW. I have characters at level 70, 50, 32, 20, and 13, and a bunch of little ones, and I’ve been playing for a year and a half. It’s still fun.

On review, I’ll add one more note: I don’t see the allure of a game like Sims at all. In-game, I don’t do the stuff I do in real life. I don’t want to deal with a house or a job or a pet. I want to slay monsters, cast magic spells, and generally enjoy a fantasy world.

When you get right down to it, any game is stupid if you don’t understand why people enjoy it. Take any sport or game that humans play and if you aren’t into it, if you don’t know the rules or it just doesn’t appeal, you are going to find it incomprehensible why people waste their time with it. I always have to keep this in mind when my in-laws what to watch NASCAR or when my dad puts on golf. My brother in law can’t understand why I enjoy martial arts and paintball and my dad thinks all video games are a complete waste of time.

Different strokes and all that.

-XT

quick hijack, I promise, don’t hit me!

Judging from that, actually, you probably got out a good few years ago? Mining barges came out… I think, a bit over a year and a half ago, pretty much being the de facto choice for serious mining. Sad to say, but your character is probably under skilled for mining these days without being able to fly a Hulk with T2 strip miners.

[on topic aside] That’s another thing that’s neat about MMO’s, there’s real competition between various people’s loot and skills, and with a game like EVE, getting new, shiny toys (and blowing up other people’s) has some actual oomph to it. And hey, for any born pack rat, what’s better than having an entire collection of spaceships? [/ota]

As for being able to pay for the game with ISK, I’m not sure when that started, but it’s been going on for at least a year and a half, if I don’t miss my guess. I just paid for both of my characters, for 90 days each, at 400 mil each. At that rate, with datacore harvesting, my salary from working at the Tribune and ratting, the game is not only totally self sufficient for me, I turn a decent profit.

Well, damn, thanks for clearing up my ignorance. I do have to say, I like that idea of no fee at all for normal play. I also have to say, however… that it strikes me as slightly odd that you’d have to pay for new content and such. In EVE, as long as I’ve got the ISK flowing in for game timecodes, I can have access to all the new ships, graphics, etc… that come down the pipe. But yeah, I had no idea that there were other free MMO’s, thanks!

Actually, a good few people who I used to fly with in EVE have taken to playing Pirates, and they love it. Their main point of praise for the game, actually, is that it makes PvP pretty much a necessity. And while EVE doesn’t have any actual ‘safe space’, there are numerous ways to totally avoid PvP if you’ve got a head on your shoulders. My buddies have tried to tempt me to play with them, but I’m somewhat monomaniacal when I get into a game.

I’m getting excellent feedback to my original question, and I appreciate everyone’s input!

So far, I’m suspecting that gaming is a hobby that will always escape my grasp, interest-wise. I think it’s about my own poor social skills, my relative inability to be amused by new things simply for their own novelty, and my preference for writing my own fiction when I feel the need to explore a new and different reality. But I’m really enjoying the discussion and hope it continues for a while.

Just curious, if it’s true that

how does one un-smugly inform others of that fact? The simple fact of the matter is MySpace bores the living hell out of me and the way the backgrounds don’t move when you scroll a page makes me slightly queasy.

No worries. It’s actually not a bad game. Their marketing strategy is to basically sell you an ‘expansion’ every 6 months to a year for around the price you’d normally pay for a new stand alone game. You don’t have to buy the expansions, but they usually throw in new dungeons, new character classes and races, new goodies, etc.

If you are ever interested in it you can pick up the early games for like $19.99 in the bargain bin at Best Buy…or even buy one of those multi-packs with several versions of the game bundled together. And it’s free to play on line to your hearts content.

I’m toying with the idea. It sounds like an incredible game. VERY advanced though with a huge learning curve. But very challenging…which I like. GameSpy gave it a 4 star review which is quite good for them…they only dinged it really on the difficulty of spinning up to speed in the early game. I’m still holding out for an invite to the WAR Beta at this point, but if it doesn’t happen by early spring I may have to give it a whirl…

-XT

I played WoW for two years and am now playing Lord of the Rings Online.

For me it is the same as playing Super Mario brothers. It’s fun and it kills time when I am bored. But it has that extra benefit of playing with friends like Street Fighter or any two player console game except you can play with more than one friend.

Some of the members of the guild I was in in WoW gets together and hangs out on weekends sometimes. I’ve been around a couple of these get togethers. Most people that show up live within a couple of hours of driving but some flew in on planes from across the US.

One guy, that did fly in, and I had a good conversation. I asked him why he would spend the money and time to come out here to hang out with the people and he said it was his vacation. He brought his wife and kids with him. While he was hanging out with us that afternoon his wife and kids were at the zoo. He said his life is pretty busy with his job and family and he is more of a home body and he would rather play WoW and make friends than go out to bars or sports games to make friends. Also he said by spending his down time at home on the computer he is readily available to his family unlike he would be if he were at a sports game.

Personally I love the lore of LOTRO and I am into it way more than I was with the lore of WoW. I think of it more as a book I am reading except with pictures and I can make decisions to affect the outcome of the book, sort of, but not really, but sort of. I am also a casual player. After a couple of hours I get bored of playing and wonder off so the idea of raiding a huge dungeon for a couple of hours is not appealing.

Well, for GW, realise that all their revenue comes from sales of the game since there’s no subscription. And it’s not odd at all–expansion packs are common for MMOs. If you don’t buy them, you don’t get access to the new areas. That said, some games go at it both ways–WoW is continually adding new content, even though they’ve only released one expansion in over three years. But the expansion added a lot more areas to the game, among other things. That’s one of the fun things about it–there’s always something bigger to kill, and if there isn’t, there will be soon (They’re currently working on finishing up the last part of the expansion zones–sometime after that comes out we’ll see another ex-pac)

My kinship leader and a few others were talking about a raid in the Rift that lasted going on 11 hours. I think they’re all crazy. (But they’re really helpful, give me great advice and gear so I overlook their insanities.)

I agree with the comment on that blog - its the new needlepoint. Engaging enough to veg to, mindless and repetitive.

You don’t HAVE to play WoW as a social game. When I was playing regularly I almost always played solo and I only joined a guild because my wife did.

It sounds to me like you’ve been thinking of videogames as one very particular type of fun – mindless action involving hand-eye coordination. A lot of games do deliver just that. But there are lots of other ways that games can be fun – strategic puzzles, wish fulfillment, social interaction. WoW delivers in those areas in spades.

Hey, are you me?
I started playing WoW a few years back because my husband plays. He plays because his oldest friends play, and they all live scattered around the country. My husband is a real gamer who plays games for the sake of computer gaming. I just play casually, so I can only explain it from my perspective, which is pretty similar to a few others in the thread.
I like it for the social aspects, almost exclusively. Were it not for the time spent in game, we wouldn’t be able to “hang out” with these long distance friends except brief visits every five or ten years. These boys don’t write letters and think to call each other about as often as they buy plane tickets for visits, so for them (and now for me) the MMORPGs are ways to do something social together on a regular basis.
For me the game is fun but distantly secondary and if I wasn’t playing with uber leet game nerds I’d have ditched it in boredom or frustration at about level 5.

The other thing about it that’s really struck me is the art and craft behind it. Sure, you’re just running around a virtual world killing virtual monsters, but every once in a while you find some gorgeous little detail, like a piece of trash that turns out to be a “steamy romance novel” with a page of scandalous cheesecake text :wink: or… the vehicle my toon rides has about fifty little moving mechanical parts, a symphony of mechanical noises, and a little hula-girl on the dashboard. Someone spent a long time planning and executing that, and it’s a nice detail. Some of the landscapes are truly stunning graphic art.
That kind of thing alone certainly wouldn’t keep me spending hours in-game, but as a backdrop for palling around with long-distance buddies, it’s entertaining.

You seem to be under the impression that games like World of Warcraft are the standard for the gaming industry. This is not the case. While massively multiplayer games can be highly lucrative, and are very popular, as a percentage of available video game titles they are vanishingly small. There are maybe a dozen or two viable online games currently operating, and most of them are several years old. In a given calender year, hundreds and hundreds of new video games are produced and released. The vast majority of these games will have a major single-player component, and a significant number of them will be single-player only. I consider myself to be a “hard core” gamer, yet my online gaming is almost entirely restricted to WoW, and even there, I spend most of my time soloing.

As for your preferred modes for exploring new and different realities, writing is a fine and admirable way of doing so. But you still read fiction and watch movies, do you not? When you come right down to it, video games are an amazingly flexible medium, able to communicate virtually any kind of narrative, athletic, or aesthetic experience imaginable. They bear resemblences to virtually every other art form conceived by man, and yet synthesize them in a way we’ve never seen before. I think they’re the first truly new artform we’ve seen since the invention of the novel.