If you don’t believe that those who participate in illegal immigration (including illegal aliens and the “industry” they generate) aren’t “exploiting and endangering others” (and themselves), then I would really have to question your “expertise” of immigration.
And frankly I have to wonder why this thread is still open. People are suggesting ways to break the law, which I thought was a no-no at the SDMB. I guess it only matters if enough folks “have a heart”. :rolleyes:
Does marriage automatically grant someone a free pass to the United States?
Marc
Some do exploit and endanger themselves, some don’t. A large proportion of people with no legal U.S. immigration status came legally but overstayed visas or vioalted status, whic ain’t exactly the same as being smuggled agross the Rio Grande by a coyote. And go ahead, question my expertise all you want; I’ve spent a year in refugee job placement, 3-1/2 as an interpreter in Immigration Court, and nearly five as a paralegal doing employment-based visas, so I know what the hell I’m talking about. I challenge you to prove me wrong on any factual issue related to immigration.
I’ve seen one semi-open suggestion along those lines, and it wasn’t mine. I’ve got mixed feelings about a lot of issues related to illegal immigration, but allowing same-sex marriage based benefits on the same basis as opposite-sex ones ain’t one of them. And keep in mind it’s entirely possible to sympathize with a person’s predicament while still ackowledging that it’s highly preferable for them to find a legal way out of it.
But that’s not exactly what you (or I) said. You asserted that those who employ illegals were “exploiting and endangering others”, while those who are illegals are not. I disagree. I think the entire system of illegal immigration – those who are illegals, those who help illegals, those who exploit illegals – is a dire threat to our national security. It goes from the Mexican laborer who crosses the border to those who legally enter the system and then overstay (like several of the 9/11 terrorists) to the resources and manpower that is expended on protecting our borders.
I assume you know what the “largest source country for unauthorized immigration” is; and I’m sure you know that that country’s share of “total unauthorized resident population (in the US)” is 69%, right?
Just want to make sure we’ve got the facts right. 
I actually agree completely, both with the issue of gay marriage and its legal ramifications (in re immigration), and with the issue of sympathizing with someone who is simply (is it ever really simple…) in love with another human being and wants to spend their life with them.
I honestly wish I could give a legal suggestion that might help Otto, but frankly I can’t. I just don’t know. I wish people would rally around this cause as strongly as the idiots who are pushing for a constitutional amendment. In fact, I hope this issue comes up soon, and that someone steps forward with a gay partner from another country and demands equal protection under immigration law as well as civil.
If Otto (or anyone else) ever does, you can bet he’ll have my support, for whatever that’s worth.
milroyj, exactly which part of “Oh, and if you have any plans at all to post a diatribe about illegal immigration or undocumented workers taking American jobs, piss the fuck out of my thread because I am NOT in the mood.” was confusing to you? If you want to use my situation as a springboard to complain about illegal immigration, take it someplace else.
Otto, I didn’t say a word to you, or about, you, your friend, or his situation.
I was responding to Eva Luna’s (bizzare to me) idea that an individual should be entitled to the benefits of our labor laws, when they are working here illegally in the first place. Since all she has done is dodge the question, I’ll drop it.
No offense to you was intended. Sorry.
Not dodging at all, darling. As you can see by the time of my previous post, I didn’t get much sleep last night and am having a hard time putting my thoughts together.
Even if you don’t believe in moral relativism (and on that one I think we’ll just have to agree to disagree), there’s always the purely pragmatic outlook I alluded to previously. It protects legal U.S. workers if people working illegally are allowed the same labor law protections that they are. Otherwise, unscrupulous employers would have complete impunity to treat them like crap and pay them next to nothing, and therefore an even greater incentive to hire illegals than people authorized to work in the U.S.
If the exploitative employers aren’t going to be penalized in any way, then what’s to stop them from abusing people besides a nonexistent sense of human decency? Even leaving aside the whole issue of dangerous working conditions and unpaid overtime and sub-minimum wages, what’s to stop them from simply refusing to pay people who aren’t legally authorized to work , after the work has already been done?
Well, if we are going for a pragmatic approach, I remain unconvinced. As crappy as my job is, illegal aliens aren’t going to take it over any time soon, so what exactly am I being protected from?
Let me rephrase this for you: “As long as an injustice doesn’t affect me, personally, it’s not worth preventing.” :rolleyes:
What a fucking moron.
What injustice? An illegal alien doesn’t get paid overtime?
Let me amend my earlier remark: “What a fucking persistent, unrelenting, mind-numbingly obtuse, willful moron.” Have you understood absolutely nothing that’s been posted here?
No, why don’t you explain it to me, dickwad?
Do you really think an illegal alien is entitled to be paid overtime?
Just because someone is an “illegal alien” doesn’t mean they’re not a fucking human being.
Why must you keep shitting in this thread where you’re so obviously not wanted?
Would it be OK with you if we raped all illegal aliens? Should anyone be able to rob an illegal alien at gunpoint? How about if we tied them to cinder blocks and tossed them into the nearest lake?
The law tries to guarantee the same basic rights to everyone, illegal alien or not. This is what we refer to as a “civilized society.” It makes things better for everyone, including the full-fledged citizens.
I’m not sure I can make this simple enough for you.
Didn’t Hoffman Plastics hold that undocumented workers are not entitled to backpay?
I don’t know; we don’t do labor law in my office, just straight immigration. I’d have to look it up.
In any case, what about worker’s comp and that sort of thing? If you have some cites, I’d be curious to see them.
Wow, that’s nice Guin. :rolleyes:
We’re not talking about raping or robbery.
Do you think that illegal aliens should be entitled to overtime? Yes or no, and why?
Since the thread has gone into territory that I specifically asked for it not go into, I’ve asked the Mods to please lock it down. Thanks.
Since when does the OP get to decide who posts in a thread, or restrict the subject matter, in the Pit no less?
If you don’t like it, don’t post.