The lawbreakers you represent are going to pay for it, you moron!

[Stan_Shmenge]

From here

Thousands of illegal immigrants stayed home this week amid rumors of immigration roundups that federal officials say were unfounded, leaving some industries scrambling for workers.

Len Mills, executive vice president of Associated General Contractors of South Florida, estimated at least 50 percent of workers on construction jobs in the region had not shown up for work.

**“This is costing millions of dollars a day, and I don’t know who is going to pay for it,” **he said.

Umm, how about your members who have been obtaining an unfair competitive advantage over your law abiding members pay for it? How dare you insiniate that “someone is going to pay for it”. Sorry. When you start breaking the law, you give up your recourse under the law or even common morality.

The sense of entitlement in this quote is mind boggling. Hey! How dare anything mess with our ability to break the law with impunity! This man needs to be the poster boy for why we need to crack down on employers.

[Rigamarole]

I don’t understand where your outrage is being directed. If someone is losing millions of dollars, someone is paying for it. That’s just the way it works.

You seem upset that this man employs illegal immigrants, yes that part I got, and it’s understandable. However, that doesn’t change the present situation. It’s also understandable that he would be concerned about his finances.

[Speaker_for_the_Dead]

[QUOTE=Rigamarole]
You seem upset that this man employs illegal immigrants, yes that part I got, and it’s understandable. However, that doesn’t change the present situation. It’s also understandable that he would be concerned about his finances.
[/QUOTE]
I think the OP’s anger is over the fact that the man doesn’t seem to be worried about his clients’ finances, and instead passes on the blame. He doesn’t say “and we’re really suffering.” He says, “and I don’t know who is going to pay for it,” as though it isn’t the employers’ fault.

[Stan_Shmenge]

Maybe my english isn’t working today.He is INSINUATING that there is some kind of compensation due and that we should feel sorry for his member’s plight. They are lawbreakers. They deserve no sympathy.

To add insult, he is acting as if he doesn’t know. Of course this will come out of the pockets of his members. He has no standing as a victim here. The fact is, if he has a bone to pick, it should be with the idiot Spanish language radio stations that knowingly spread these false rumors to whip up the furor. And he should be damn lucky that real raids don’t materialize, nor likely will. He should STFU and be glad when his illegal psuedo slaves eventually return to work. Is that more of a PIT?

[saoirse]

[QUOTE=Happy Wanderer]
The fact is, if he has a bone to pick, it should be with the idiot Spanish language radio stations that knowingly spread these false rumors to whip up the furor. And he should be damn lucky that real raids don’t materialize, nor likely will. He should STFU and be glad when his illegal psuedo slaves eventually return to work. Is that more of a PIT?
[/QUOTE]

I don’t know. It let’s you know who’s really hiring illegals without being terribly invasive. Someone having a house built in Florida who had a work stoppage because of this could start looking for another contractor, and a way out of his current contract.

[Blalron]

[QUOTE=Happy Wanderer]
They are lawbreakers. They deserve no sympathy.
[/QUOTE]

This struck a nerve with me. We are all lawbreakers of sort or another. Yes, all of us. Including the cops, judges, and even our President (DUI back in the 70s). The merits of the law itself come into play here. And even then, very few lawbreakers commit offenses that would render them as wholly unworthy of ANY sympathy. You really hold people to a rigid standard here don’t you? Strictly black and white, pass or fail, law abiding and lawbreaker.

[Stan_Shmenge]

[QUOTE=Blalron]
This struck a nerve with me. We are all lawbreakers of sort or another. Yes, all of us. Including the cops, judges, and even our President (DUI back in the 70s). The merits of the law itself come into play here. And even then, very few lawbreakers commit offenses that would render them as wholly unworthy of ANY sympathy. You really hold people to a rigid standard here don’t you? Strictly black and white, pass or fail, law abiding and lawbreaker.
[/QUOTE]

We are all lawbreakers? Are we? What laws do you break? Are they felonies? Perhaps you would like to confess a few things.

While the act of an illegal alien entering this country is not a felony, most of these folks rack up a few once they get here. Forging documents for instance. Felony. When is the last time you forged a document?

I can honestly say I have never commited a felony. I don’t even exceed the speed limit by more than a mile or two an hour, If I can help it.

These folks are breaking the law, they are doing it continuously, they are doing it unabashedly, and without a second thought for the consequenses of their actions. They don’t care if they undercut legitimate businesses and put the law abinding on the dole as long as they can increase their profit. They are vermin, feeding of the plight of the desperate, to line their pockets, and the effect of their actions is to eliminate the middle class in this country.

And when something (albiet temporarily) interferes with this ongoing illegal activity, they whine and cry as if they have been wronged. Jail is too good for these employers, but they won’t even get so much as a fine, because even though they are eligible they know enforcement is a bad joke.

By your idiot logic, we should just repeal all the law on the books because, what the hell, we are all lawbreakers. I thought smart people hung out here. Advocate for anarchy in another thread if you like. It doesn’t wash with me.

[Turek]

[QUOTE=Happy Wanderer]
They are lawbreakers. They deserve no sympathy.
[/QUOTE]

Along these lines, I read this the other day, which I’m pretty much in total agreement with.

If you follow a few simple steps, you can move to the United States and become an American.

One of those steps is not sneaking through the fence, avoiding the law for ten years, receiving thousands of dollars in government aid, and then demanding amnesty for your illegal behavior. Yet, at this time, thousands of people throughout this country are demanding that we make that a legitimate way of becoming an American citizen. In essence, they want to profit from their illegal behavior.

That is just not right. Go home, follow the law, come here legally, and we will welcome you with open arms. Break our laws, and we will be justifiably outraged by your behavior. That is how it is, and how it ought to be.

[Tenar]

I’m with you 100%.

[Thudlow_Boink]

[QUOTE=Blalron]
This struck a nerve with me. We are all lawbreakers of sort or another. Yes, all of us. Including the cops, judges, and even our President (DUI back in the 70s). The merits of the law itself come into play here. And even then, very few lawbreakers commit offenses that would render them as wholly unworthy of ANY sympathy. You really hold people to a rigid standard here don’t you? Strictly black and white, pass or fail, law abiding and lawbreaker.
[/QUOTE]
It’s not just because they’re lawbreakers that they don’t deserve any sympathy. It’s because the thing they are complaining about is a direct result of their lawbreaking—lawbreaking that exploits people. By hiring illegals, they can skimp on wages, benefits, and safety, and their workers have no recourse, while they gain an unfair competitive advantage over employers and workers that are on the up-and-up.

[Cheesesteak]

When 50% of the workforce doesn’t show up, I don’t think people are hiring illegals to “get a competitive advantage”. They’re hiring illegals because it’s the only way to compete in that industry.

You want these people to leave and come back legally? That’s great, we can shut down construction (and most restaurants) for a few years, increase legal immigration from Mexico by 500% and eventually let all these same people back in to do the same work they’re doing today.

The work these people do is helping our economy to grow. The existing rules for immigration would have prevented them from coming here in the first place. I think our rules are too restrictive, it’s too hard for a person who just wants to come here to live and work, to come here to live and work legally. These people aren’t here illegally because they didn’t want to do it right, they’re here illegally because it’s impossible for them to come here legally.

[Steve_MB]

[QUOTE=Rigamarole]
I don’t understand where your outrage is being directed. If someone is losing millions of dollars, someone is paying for it. That’s just the way it works.
[/QUOTE]

The way the quote is phrased makes it sound like an unfortunate thing that just happened by random happenstance, and the OP is expressing irritation because, no, it’s not that, it’s something that happened as a result of some contractors choosing to hire illegal labor (or at least to not exercise due diligence in the matter).

[Steve_MB]

[QUOTE=Blalron]
This struck a nerve with me. We are all lawbreakers of sort or another. Yes, all of us. Including the cops, judges, and even our President (DUI back in the 70s). The merits of the law itself come into play here.
[/QUOTE]

The merits of the law as it stands are pretty much nil. It’s a chickenshit scam of setting strict rules (to appease labor interests and nativists) and then looking the other way as they are routinely violated (to appease business interests and the Hispanic voting bloc*).

That said, the rep quoted in the OP is still a weasel, for the reasons noted earlier in the thread.

*Actually, I suspect that Hispanics who came in legally aren’t necessarily happy about the open-back-door policy, but this doesn’t seem to show up on the political radar.

[Polycarp]

[QUOTE=Turek]
Along these lines, I read this the other day, which I’m pretty much in total agreement with.
[/QUOTE]

Except that, demagoguery aside, no, it** isn’t** that easy. Yes, it can be done. Yes, people have done it. But the debates here on the topic already have demonstrated one thing: our immigration processes have become incredibly arcane, and subject to absurd amounts of political pressure. Like the infamous Cadillac-driving welfare moms, the public-services-consuming tax-evading illegal immigrant has become a stereotype that does not correspond with the reality of what’s happening.

Further, just in case you missed the point of the OP – it’s not the immigrants themselves who are being Pitted here, but the other criminals involved: the people who knowingly employ illegal immigrants in order to pad their bottom lines, who are breaking the law fully as much as the illegals themselves. I belong to another board in which the topic of any thread, no matter how arcane, invariably degenerates into either abortion, gay rights, or them Evil Lib’ruls.

Perhaps crossing into America illegally is and ought to be a crime. But the issue at hand is, so is employing them contrary to the law of the land. And the dipshit spokesman for contractors using illegal immigrants whining because his clients are losing money owing to the fact that the illegal immigrants they have working for them are out protesting instead of working, illegally, for them, is just as stupid.

[Stan_Shmenge]

When 50% of the workforce doesn’t show up, I don’t think people are hiring illegals to “get a competitive advantage”. They’re hiring illegals because it’s the only way to compete in that industry.

:smack: Arrgh! The fact that 50% are illegal is the RESULT of all these people hiring them to get a competitive advantage. The fact that it is the only way to compte in that industry is the RESULT of the lawbreaking. You have a serious horse/cart problem with that argument. Are you even aware that people have lost their businesses and jobs for the heinous crime of OBEYING THE LAW? :rolleyes:

[Stan_Shmenge]

Perhaps crossing into America illegally is and ought to be a crime. But the issue at hand is, so is employing them contrary to the law of the land. And the dipshit spokesman for contractors using illegal immigrants whining because his clients are losing money owing to the fact that the illegal immigrants they have working for them are out protesting instead of working, illegally, for them, is just as stupid.

Thank you! I guess in the pit I can use names like dipshit. I hope this causes some of these modern-day plantation owners to slip their schedules and pay some hefty late fees. And I am not pitting the illegals. If my country was as messed up as Mexico, I would do the same damn thing.

Here is the crux:

The INS is not processing in the labor we supposedly need. If this is some Machavellian scheme I will leave to a great debate. This creates a shortage of legal labor and a black market for certain jobs. Jobs that are increasingly filled by this burgeoning underclass. Societal stress ensues. A grass roots movement opposes the immigration, and the implications therof, including national security. We can trace the roots of this to AM radio that has nothing to do with Rush Limbaugh or any other big name, unless you know who Ray Briem is (and I am sure it goes back further). Sean Cannity is a latecomer. This movement gets the attention of the political class and action is contemplated. The illegals and their friends act to defend what is now their assumed turf. Voila! You have what is going to happen on Monday.

It all started because INS is a screwed up government hive of baboons, and it it just too damn much bother for would-be immigrants (especially those expecting low wages on arrival) to deal with it. Reform INS and you have nipped the problem in the bud. Reform INS and you have orderly lawful immigration that meets the legitimate labor needs of the United States, and preserves the rights of all workers.

[Stan_Shmenge]

owing to the fact that the illegal immigrants they have working for them are out protesting instead of working, illegally,

If you had RTFA you would know that the workers weren’t showing up because they had heard a rumour that INS was going to be conducting massive raids. If this fits the historical pattern, these rumors were spread by the weasels in the hispanic media in this country, in an effort to further stir the pot, so I am pitting them as well.

As far as the marchers, let them have their little parade. I am sure the backers can pass out a few spanish language copies of the “Weekly Worker”. It doesn’t serve them, and the economic cost should be minimal. I am not planning anything out of the ordinary for Monday, and I am in the heart of the beast. I will be very surprised if I can’t get a cheeseburger.

[Cheesesteak]

[QUOTE=Happy Wanderer]
Are you even aware that people have lost their businesses and jobs for the heinous crime of OBEYING THE LAW? :rolleyes:
[/QUOTE]
With an overall unemployment rate of 4.7%, I’m not really thinking that job loss in a booming construction industry is exactly the biggest problem we have going. There are more than enough people in the construction industry today who don’t know which end of a hammer to grab to make me think that qualified contractors can find a job if they want one. Hell, I have heard more stories about not even being able to get a call back to make me think decent contractors are up to their fucking eyeballs in clients, as opposed to being jobless due to competitive pressure.

I welcome you to fight my ignorance on this subject, I will listen.

Speaking of cart and horse, it’s entirely possible that we have this boom (and by extension all of these jobs) precisely because of the prevalence of the immigrant workforce. Lower labor costs =more affordable construction = more demand for construction = more jobs

[Stan_Shmenge]

With an overall unemployment rate of 4.7%, I’m not really thinking that job loss in a booming construction industry is exactly the biggest problem we have going.

Tell that to all the painters and framers and drywallers that used to make a living commensurate with being in the middle class. These have all become McJobs thanks to the invasion.

[Blalron]

[QUOTE=Happy Wanderer]
We are all lawbreakers? Are we? What laws do you break? Are they felonies? Perhaps you would like to confess a few things.
[/quote]

Luckily in this country we have a 5th amendment priviledge against self incrimination. So I’ll exercise my right to remain silent about any illegal things I may or may not have (hypothetically) done. I will say no more. :dubious:

But I’ll venture a guess that at LEAST 51% of the population have committed acts at some point in their lives that could have landed them behind bars if they were done in front of a law enforcement officer. And probably 99% have done a misdeamenor punishable by a fine (littering, speeding, etc)

While the act of an illegal alien entering this country is not a felony, most of these folks rack up a few once they get here. Forging documents for instance. Felony. When is the last time you forged a document?

I can honestly say I have never commited a felony. I don’t even exceed the speed limit by more than a mile or two an hour, If I can help it.

I’m glad you take such care to obey the law, but I think you should recognize a substantial number of people (a majority even) cut legal corners on occassion. And sometimes there are laws which are arguably unjust and some argue that Civil Disobedience is a good deed. Now illegal immigration may not be on par with helping runaway slaves 150 years ago, but some of these illegals are leading dreadful lives in their home country and just want to make a decent living. I wouldn’t fault them personally for wanting to escape.