Really?:rolleyes:
Do these studies you cite deal specifically with the scenario of F>M transgender athletes and the impact of regular testosterone injections on muscularity? I get that if a man takes female hormones for 2 years or more his inherent physiological muscularity advantage might be nullified but in this that’s not exactly what is at issue. In this case a hard working athlete born as a biological female is taking testosterone to change their gendered characteristics. Saying that this gives him a potential strength advantage of cis-gendered females hardly seems a debatable statement given the overt demonstrated efficacy of supplemental testosterone in enhancing muscular development if you work out hard while taking it.
I would not characterize it as “cheating” on his part since he is being forced to wrestle as a female against his desires, but surely the testosterone gives him an unfair potential strength advantage against biological female competitors. Are you contesting this specific assertion?
I don’t know. American people have a constitutional right to compete in sports?
Which is irrelevant. If the rule was different, instead of being trashed by a trans male, they would instead be trashed by trans females.
I can’t see a solution. Whichever rule you apply, it will be unfair for cis girls. They too would like to have a shot at winning in a competition they train hard for. I’m not sure how you can possibly think it’s fair to crush the dreams of 99 girls so that a single person (female to male or male to female) will have an (easy) shot at the title. Non trans have feelings too, you know.
So, unless you demonstrate that the opposite rule wouldn’t result in a transitioning male to female competitor having a significant advantage, I stand by what I say : they should be allowed to compete. Sucks to be them, but there are plenty of people whose condition prevent them from participating in regular competitions.
It’s totally about fairness in sports.
I meant shouldn’t be allowed to compete, obviously.
The comment I think was regarding if M->F with prolonged normal F testosterone levels has any “head start” competing as F. Una says the data is clearly not. Una has been known to flaunt her knowledge base and she’s got it to flaunt it. Presumptions that M->F with prolonged normal female testosterone levels have a major advantage over cis-F, making the competition world unfair to them are, per Una, without basis, and the IOC seems to concur based on the current science avaialble. This young man competing as a male, as he desired, would be consistent with IOC guidelines, not flouting anything.
F->M competing as F, as this young man was forced to do, is unfair both to the young man and the females he is being forced to compete against. He should not only be allowed to compete as M but required to. F->M competing against other males also gives no competitive advantage.
So nothing substantive to say other than your drive-by hate. Got it.
“Trashed?”
And neither you nor others nor anyone else has given any hard facts or credible evidence that this would be so. I did my research and presented my cites, many times on this message board. Let’s see your legwork.
It’s a false dilemma, since you have refused to show citations of there being any sort of phenomenon of us dominating any girls sports.
You do realize we’ve been competing in sports as women for decades (or you would if you actually did any research). So show me your citations that this is an actual problem.
No, the burden of proof is on you to prove that transgender people seriously threaten any women’s sport, and that hormone therapy and surgery etc. have no impact towards levelization. The IOC seems to think it works, but hey, what do they know relative to the likes of you…in any event, you and others are making the claim as a vehicle to discriminate, so you back it up.
Some yes, but most of the “concern” is a response to the continual criticism and discrimination against transgender girls and women.
Of course it gives him an advantage - against women. But that’s not the point at all - the point, which I and others have emphasized, is exactly that - he doesn’t want to play against girls, he wants to compete against boys.
The issue you bring up is a non-issue because the only people who want that situation are (ironically) the transphobes.
Of course it gives him an advantage - that’s one of the two primary reasons why it’s not right!
I thought I was very painfully clear that the entire issue is he’s being forced to compete unfairly due to the unintended side effects of discrimination and hate.
I’m sorry if I’m flaunting the rules of behaviour you deem appropriate.
I’m sorry it comes across as flaunting. I hate reposting the same lengthy citations every 30 days when someone on here suddenly thinks about this issue for the first time, refuses to do even a cursory Search on here or elsewhere, and decides that today is the day they take an SDMB stand against the Trans Menace. It’s one of the reasons Eve and several other transgender posters completely gave up on the SDMB.
Finding one example where it doesn’t work out is not enough to dismiss the idea entirely. Wrestling is very specifically about overpowering your opponent using your body mass. Then find a different way to separate the divisions that are fairer than weight. I don’t mind what it is.
My point was that if gender divisions are now becoming blurred (and were never a very reliable way to separate classes anyway) then find a better and fairer way. Adjust for each sport. Once they’re consistent and well established nobody will question it.
Considering professional sports is corrupted out the wazoo from drugs and money, the whole system needs an enormous kick in the pants, so why not do this at the same time?
So what are you anyhow? You’re certainly not a person who cares about this issue, so why are you here?
Mainly trying to correct the extremely annoying flaunt/flout misuse that acey did first, and then you did again even after he had been corrected, and further corrections still went over your head.:rolleyes:
O…K. :dubious:
Now you can work on correcting your misgendering in this thread. You know, since you’re all about being the grammar police here. How about it?
Wrestling is not the only sport with weight classes.
Weightlifting
Boxing
Various martial arts(karate, judo, etc.)
Im genuinely interested in reading some of this research. Could you post a link? The search function here doesn’t seem to be functioning for me.
Oh no. I was actually trying to gently tease the person who felt that being pedantic on the word usage was a worthwhile contribution. You have the knowledge. For my purposes your posts are citable as authoritative on this subject. I had no intent to be critical of your post in any way. My apologies that it came off as otherwise!
This reminds me of an all-transvestite/transsexual elephant-polo team named the Screwless Tuskers. Controversy arose when they insisted they be grouped in the women’s-team category but it was argued they retained the upper-body strength of men. I was not playing then and am not sure how it was settled but I think not in their favor. They have since disbanded.
More recently was an exhibition match between Tiffany’s Cabaret and New Zealand’s All Blacks rugby team, the latter of whom play for real every year in the annual elephant-polo tournament in Thailand. Story here, but it makes a big mistake in identifying Tiffany’s as being in Bangkok’s Patpong red-light district. It’s not – it’s in Pattaya, along Thailand’s Eastern Seaboard. Patpong does not have any cabaret clubs per se of any type at all.
Still missing my point.
It’s been proven over and over again that males have an advantage in most sports. Assuming equal training and experience.
Males are stronger. Females are more flexible. It’s just how our bodies are designed.
You can’t just eliminate gender in most sports.
I’m not in favor of any athlete being allowed to use drugs.Testosterone enhances performance.
A person that wants to transition can wait until after their athletic career. Or forgo participating in athletics if they want to transition immediately. It’s their choice.
Athletes make choices all the time. I had to bulk up to play college basketball. I didn’t enjoy that time in the weight room. But I did it to compete. I went back to my normal and thinner body type after I stopped playing competitively.