As I understand it - a great many believe that a person should have the freedom to self-identify when it comes to gender identity. Would this (should this) carry over to competitive sports which have historically been divided by gender. I can see it being problematical were a self-identifying woman be able to compete in female Olympic categories, for instance, if they lived in a man’s body.
Is there any consensus on this?
Not exactly answering your question but a possible real life Parallel, Fallon Fox, the first and only MMA fighter. IDK what consensus opinion is on that particular fighter within the sport. I’m tempted to say no, they cannot compete, they still have a physical advantage but I am open minded to any well reasoned counter argument. Just for the sake of clarity I can hardly think of a sport where physicality is more important than MMA.
Fallon Foxhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallon_Fox
Last I heard, the consensus was no, because of bodily conformation issues. The (genetic) male hip is shaped differently from the (genetic) female hip, and this gives an advantage in such sports as sprinting.
It may not be fair…but the alternative is not fair either. Sometimes, life hands you a “lose-lose” situation.
FWIW, think about those people in wheelchairs who are denied the chance to participate in the Olympics at all.
Wouldn’t some male athletes quickly abuse this loophole by temporarily declaring themselves as “female” long enough to compete in women’s sports and use their male physical advantage to snatch up medals and victories?
You could argue that it’s a dishonorable way to win, but there are plenty of dishonorable athletes (just as there are plenty of dishonorable people in any competitive career/profession.)
Also upper body strength and natural differences between the bodies’ muscle to fat ration between the genders.
No, in general. I would let them do shooting and horse sports, but other than that, it seems to open a big loophole. To wit: there are people who will do anything to win, even change their sex.
There’s a good reason sports mostly have separate women’s and men’s events. That’s because they have measurable differences in ability.
Similarly sports often have junior grades, e.g. under 21, under 18 etc. for exactly the same reason.
Strangely they have different events for women and men in Olympic archery and shooting. I can’t think of any physical reason for this but I assume they have done statistical tests?
I’m pretty sure it has to do with the Advantage of upper body strength. How to put it without sounding crude? A man has more muscle in the exact physical location where women have less muscle, the breast area.
Some of that is undoubtedly tradition. Strength is definitely a factor in archery, but in shooting? Although events that combine shooting with another sport, like the biathlon, should probably have separate male and female categories.
No because the body is different, the sports are not divided into male/female ‘minds’ or ‘consciousnesses’, but on the type of body that consciousness has.
However what about a person who, for what ever reason, has not developed secondary sexual characteristics and still retains a child like adult form?
Actually shooting used to be mixed until 1980 but has been segregated since then with skeet being changed in 1996.
The New York state court answered “yes” in finding in favor of ophthalmologist and professional tennis player Renee Richards (*ne Richard Raskind) in the 1970s. Not sure how the law has ruled since.
*I assume this is the appropriate form of “ne” (born) vice the feminine form “nee” - Raskind self-identified as male until beginning transitioning sometime in college.
Should men who identify as women be allowed in a women’s chess tournament?
For people who accept that gender (and sometimes sex) is about self-identification and not public opinión (I’m not in that goup), the fact that someone cannot compete in recognised international events because of the wrong genitalia or, worse, wrong now-gone genitalia, should be unacceptable, whatever physiological reason others may have.
What if they capped height for basketball or volleyball using the same crietria?
Sorry Messi, sorry Cristiano, sorry Zlatan; you’re just too physiologically better than others, you’re banned from football.
That is actually an interesting line of thought. Though I fully support the rights of transgender individuals, my initial reaction to the OP was, no, that’s unfair.
But you raise a good point. Is it “unfair” in roughly the same sense that it’s unfair that an offensive lineman can bench press 600 pounds and I can’t? Couldn’t someone argue that it’s as much a choice (meaning, not at all) for a transgender person to have his or her gender identity and the body they were born with? After all, the female / male distinctions in sports don’t have thresholds for strength or height or whatever. We don’t say “only females who can sprint less than a certain speed are permitted.”
Of course, then it would make a travesty of things like powerlifting or most track events, if a transgender female who has decided not to have sexual reassignment surgery or hormone therapy competes. So, in conclusion…I’m not sure, probably not a single good answer.
I don’t see why not and I doubt anyone objects.
What’s to stop me from saying that I identify as a man for all thing, except for sports, where I am a chick? Why is my gender identity any less valid then anyone else’s.
I wrote a 23,000 word research article on this subject where I thoroughly debunk the oppositions to transgender persons competing against cisgender persons in their “new sex.” Feel free to read through it; page 5 addresses the physical differences, page 6 and 7 debunk the “unfairness” allegations.
The “consensus” is yes, as the IOC and many other major amateur sports bodies have already ruled on this subject. Professional leagues are different matter, but being private or semi-private entities they have different rules they can follow.
No. See my research article linked earlier in the thread; page 6, specifically the “Svengali Fallacy” section.
See page 5 of my research article.
See above.
But some sports are divided into weight classes, such as boxing. See my research article and page 6 and 7.
Because that’s not being how transgender works? Have you ever read any transgender information thread on this message board before? Seek mine out in MPSIMS and you will see answers to your question.
They aren’t, though. People with disabilities have been competing in the Olympics since 1904, when George Eyser took home a bucket of gymnastics medals, despite not having one leg. The first wheelchair bound Olympian was in 1984, when Neroli Fairhall took the gold in archery. And I’m sure everyone remembers Oscar Pistorius from the London games in 2012.
You’re right, though, that sports aren’t “fair.” Doesn’t matter how much I practice, I’m never going to make the Olympic basketball team, because I just wasn’t born with the right genetics to allow me to compete at that level. If a transwoman gets an edge in a competition because she was born with a Y chromosome, I don’t see that as significantly “less fair” than a woman who gets an edge in a competition because she was born with more fast twitch muscles.