Those of you who are sick of us transgender people, what do you actually want us to do?

Great Debates
1

I find that most discussions about trans people, particularly when they don’t actually include trans people, quickly turn into hardline stances about the nature of gender and trans-ness. I know I’ll inevitably see some of this:

“Men have XY sex chromosomes and a penis; women, XX and a vagina. Trans people are deluded or have a mental illness. Why should I have to buy into their delusions?”

And then the discussions can get abstract:

“Gender is immutable. There’s no gender ‘essence’. Words mean what they mean.”

At this point, the discussion is no longer helpful to trans folk. Regardless of how you perceive them in your heart of hearts, the fact is that they exist (the USA currently has more trans people than it has people living in Wyoming), and they often have needs that are not adequately or safely met by society. To keep the discussion focused, let’s talk about me. I’m not interested in what you think I am. The indisputable facts are

[ul]
[li]I (likely) have XY sex chromosomes.[/li][li]I have a penis. I intend to have my testicles removed in May. I’ll still have a penis. I’m OK with that.[/li][li]I have visible breast development, and most of my facial hair is gone except for some along my neck.[/li][li]I “present” as female. This includes unambiguously gendered clothing and hairstyle.[/li][li]I’m 5’9", 130 lbs.[/li][li]I “pass” to people who don’t interact closely with me or who don’t get a good look at my face – panhandlers asking me for money at night, for example. It is very obvious that I’m trans, otherwise.[/li][/ul]

Which restroom do you want me to use? If your answer is the men’s room, how do you propose that I do so safely? Consider that I’ve been verbally harassed and physically assaulted in men’s rooms. At this point, as soon as I enter a men’s room, I am guaranteed to confuse people, because most men are not going to study my face while they’re standing at a urinal. “Miss, I think you’re in the wrong restroom!” As I’m exiting and passing people coming in: “Shit, is this the men’s room?”

How are you going to enforce this? Have someone check my genitalia? How will this work for those of us trans women who received a vaginoplasty? What happens if you bar a non-trans woman from using the bathroom on the basis that she’s not “feminine”? Are you also going to check her genitalia?

How will your policy impact people who have transitioned “the other way” (I’m simplifying and excluding a lot of people in the process, but as an example: XX chromosomes, vagina, taking testosterone)? How will you determine that I’m not transitioning “the other way”? Should everyone carry papers?

Do you want separate restrooms for anyone who looks a little queer? Where will they be built? How will they be paid for?

How do we currently enforce bathroom access? Does it work? Will your solution be better?

Extend these questions to homeless shelters, crisis centers/refuges, changing rooms, etc.

If you think I have a mental illness, what should I do? What if I can’t afford medical care? Consider that I have a medical diagnosis of “transsexualism”. I currently am in weekly psychotherapy and often discuss gender. I am on psychiatric medication. The accepted treatment is for me to live “in a role consistent with my gender identity”. Do you disagree? If so, why? What do you recommend I do? Why does your recommendation carry more weight than that of the psychiatric community? What should be the ultimate outcome of transgender care? I currently am far more functional and capable than I ever was pre-transition.

2

They want things to go back to the way they were. They want people to go back into the closet and stop upsetting their antiquated worldview as to how things should be. They want the world to work the same way it did back in the 60’s when they were growing up watching Brady Bunch and My Three Sons.

I realize this does not help you at all, and they’re doomed to disappointment. I’m sorry for what the jerks of the world are putting you through.

3

Finally, if you’re someone who has strong opinions about transgender people – on either/any side of the “debate” – and a lot of these questions are things you haven’t thought about, why is that?

4

You’ve done a good job pointing out the logical contradictions that run all through transphobia, and the fact is that those making such transphobic arguments have no coherent answers at all when you point out their logical flaws. They don’t want to debate the answers to these questions. All they want is for us to stop existing. That’s their entire program. We’re not going to stop existing. That’s why they will ultimately lose. All they can do is harass, harass, harass until our continued existence and fight for our equal rights will make them get tired eventually and give up harassing.

5

I’ve noticed you put “debate” in quotation marks, which is good. Because there’ll be no “debate” about people’s right to exist who were born this way. To even set up such a “debate” is dehumanizing and vile. I won’t debate anyone who believes I ought not to exist, I just scorn their evil bigotry.

6

I identify as a trans ally. And I don’t care what bathroom you use. The ladies’ room has stalls, anyway, so no one is going to notice what bits you have, unless they are a creep who peers into occupied stalls.

I wish you the best of luck dealing with society.

7

Relevant exchange snippets from me in a concurrent thread, which will hopefully take care of some of the standard transphobic talking points before any transphobic posters actually show up:

8

I’m not your target audience, but I think that when transphobic people eventually show up in this thread, someone should link to that beautiful transwoman model and super-buff transman, both of whose names escape me right now, and ask which bathroom they should use.

In fact, I think someone should put together a set of slides with cis- and transwomen and men and ask people to identify which is which, just to show how silly the bathroom issue is.

This isn’t the guy I was thinking of, but I think he should probably use the men’s room:

And, these should probably use the women’s room:

https://viraluck.com/viral-facts-transgender-models/

RS

9

I may not exactly be what you may me seeking but you might consider me trans confused. With that being said, I want to state the following clearly and unambiguously.

  • I do not fear you, who you are, how you live your life or how you choose to express yourself either in public or in the private moments with those you love. Thoughts and actions based on fear breed negative results. Thoughts and actions based on shared understanding and honest communication with people who have different perspective than I breed positive results.
  • I don’t care how you dress or what restroom you use. I’ve got more important concerns.
  • I have no interest in attempting to define who you are or who you should be. You and I are different and attempting to define you in my terms is somewhere between futile and insulting.

With that being said, I do have to plead ignorance regarding modern gender terminology. This is a good thing for the simple reason that ignorance unburdened with either fear or hate is a correctable condition. I’m old school, somewhat socially issolated and relatively unconnected to modern thought. When I grew up, things were simple, binary. Now, I just don’t know what terms the hip (Do people still say “hip”?), young, “woke”(?) people use these days. There’s no point in trying to label other people but I would appreciate some help in learning what labels people are self applying. I could really use a glossary.

10

They want to not have to think about or reminded about the fact that you exist.

It’s like when people complain about things like Gay Pride. “Why do you have to wave your sexuality in our faces?” As if did-Herero people’s sexuality isn’t always in everyone’s faces.

11

And didn’t know that Robert Reed was gay.

What about people who are intersex, anatomically and/or genetically?

12

:confused: I’m guessing “cis-hetero”?

13

Yes.

14

A lot of things don’t make uncomfortable, but this sort of thing does for several reasons. With regard to the trans community as a whole, this privileges trans people who “pass”, and soon we’ll be talking about how some trans people don’t deserve to do X based on how well they adhere to some physical standard. I have a trans guy friend who is not shy about his frustration that Laith Ashley has somehow become the face of trans masculinity. It also has a sort of “wow, look at this woman, she’s really a man” feel to it, and I dumped an electrologist because of a similar attitude of hers regarding her young and pretty Instagram-model clients. I’m reminded of the (deserved) blowback RuPaul’s Drag Race got when they aired a “Female or Shemale?” segment.

Secondly, when I was in my 20s, I had a very Andreja Pejic sort of vibe, to the point where I’d regularly get asked if I modeled, or why I wasn’t modeling. Of course, I was closeted, and my internal answer was “I’m too ‘manly’ or large or disgusting or whatever.” Now, in my mid-30s, I look at myself in the mirror, and I kick myself for not jumping at the chance. I still complain about my body to my guy friends, who are frequently six inches taller than me and twice my weight, and they’re always like “What the fuck is wrong with you?”. My cisgender wife is taller than me when I’m in heels, but that doesn’t stop me from saying stuff like “Yeah, my hands are long and slender, but the nailbeds are the wrong shape”. It’s falling in a dysphoria rabbit-hole that, while it isn’t the norm, it certainly is a norm that I see among people in the community. So I’m pretty sensitive to physical standards, because while I’m very lucky, I also know how painful these issues are for a lot of us. Plus, I know plenty of trans people who are absolutely gorgeous but are obviously trans.

Also, you meet some of these people in real life, and you’re like – wow, there’s a lot of magic that happens in the make-up chair, the production studio, etc. What the hell kept me back?

15

I would wager that they would say intersex people are suffering from a birth defect and should make the best of an awkward situation by staying quiet and not disturbing the closed-minded people of the world.

I work with a guy who believes that transgenderism doesn’t exist because once somebody’s done transitioning, the DNA hasn’t changed, as if he’d be okay with transgenderism if there was some miraculous transformation involved. I didn’t have the energy to ask what he thought about intersex; I just don’t talk to him any more.

16

Pardon the hijack, but do men and women tend to have different shaped nailbeds? I can guarantee you that’s a detail I’ve never noticed. What’s the difference?

17

I’ve seen this expressed online now pretty regularly, although I’ve never heard anyone say it in person. I don’t understand what is implied. I can understand disagreeing with what being transgender “means”, or what it implies about a person, but to say it doesn’t exist? The only thing I can think of is some idea that being trans is learned behavior or is some sort of choice. I guess that taking steps to transition or to live accordingly is a “choice” in a sense, but – and maybe this is why I don’t understand it – there’s a state of mind that I often recognize in trans women in a “we know our own kind” sort of way, and this state of mind precedes transition.

18

My take on it is that I don’t live in your body and you do, so that makes you the expert on it. I don’t live in your mind and you do, so that means you’re the expert on that as well. My opinion or beliefs regarding your gender presentation are immaterial and it’s up to me to keep my opinions to myself, just as I expect others to STFU about whether they think I’m attractive or not or should gain or lose weight or should wear makeup or different clothes–because they don’t live in my body or my mind so their opinion of what’s going on in there is meaningless.

I don’t give a shit where you pee or poop, so long as it’s not somewhere I’m likely to step in it or smell it days later. Use whatever bathroom you like and feel comfortable in–same with changing rooms and workout spaces and the rest. You know where you belong and my opinion doesn’t matter. Just don’t be gross or creepy or I’ll tell you to fuck off with that shit because I don’t appreciate anyone being gross or creepy in a space where people are naked and/or vulnerable.

I simply do not care what’s in anyone’s britches unless I’m interested in getting up close and personal and since I identify as ace these days that means I don’t care about anyone’s bits and bobs. I don’t care if you have no breasts and can grow a beard but still have a uterus and decide to gestate a baby with it all the while you identify as a man–yes, some men have uteruses and some women have penises and anyone who can’t deal with that should just shut the fuck up about it until they’ve learned how to behave in polite society.

I also don’t care how good your gender presentation is or how “passable” you are, just as I wouldn’t have given a shit regarding your color and how that defined your race in less enlightened times. I’ll take your word on it at 100% face value and will do my level best to remember your pronouns. If I fuck up I’ll apologize too, because to continue to argue with another person when they tell you you’re wrong about something you’ve assumed about their gender is the height of arrogance, privilege and assholishness and I do try not to be those things.

Does some of this mean I’ve had some uncomfortable moments over the years? Why yes it has but about a million other things changing around have also been uncomfortable and frankly a person’s unconventional gender identity is way less disconcerting than a lot of other societal changes. What do I want y’all to do? Mostly to be happy, do what’s right for you and continue to insist on your right to be just as comfortable in society as anyone else. Diversity is fun and those who resist it are, basically, pretty much just giant gaping assholes. Fuck those people.

19

I don’t know. But I feel like my palm is a little blockier than a cis woman’s, and my knuckles just a little too knobby, and my nailbeds a little too squared-off and shallow. This may be a lot of bullshit, but I’ve somehow internalized this due to… pervasive beauty standards in media? Wearing a full set makes this go away, I think because it balances the proportions, which is funny because I invariably have cis women asking me how the process for getting acrylics is like, as they’ve never done it.

20

I’m not sure that emphasizing trans people who happen to be ideal physical examples of their post gender is such a good thing. I think it’s important to emphasize everybody’s rights even if their appearance wouldn’t trick a cis-person into thinking they’re cis.