Good morning all, I have been perusing the web and couldn’t find the Hitler quote about gun control anywhere. The NRA’s insistence that the quote was attributed to Hitler is beyond belief.
However, in saying that, these quotes can be directly attributed to V.I. Lenin.
“One of the basic conditions for the victory of socialism is the arming of the workers and the disarming of the bourgeoisie (the middle class).”
– Vladimir Ilyich Lenin
“One man with a gun can control 100 without one.”
– Vladimir Ilyich Lenin
“A system of licensing and registration is the perfect device to deny gun ownership to the bourgeoisie.”
– Vladimir Ilyich Lenin
So to attribute the destruction of our second amendment rights to a fascist is incorrect. We need to attribute the destruction of our second amendment rights to a communist.
Now if we take Obama’s quotes in “Dreams of my Father”, his relationship with Bill Ayers and others from Chicago’s Marxist roots, his teaching of Saul Alinsky, Obama’s mentor, Frank Davis and other ties, could we safely assume that this is a gun grab to prevent Americans from arming themselves?
You want straight dope? This is straight dope. And what hurts more is it is the “Truth”
Can you supply us with credible links demonstrating that Lenin said all those things? I’m especially :dubious: about this one: "“A system of licensing and registration is the perfect device to deny gun ownership to the bourgeoisie.”
Next we’ll be hearing that Lenin said “The road to power is in demonizing sporting and gun rights organizations” or “The first step towards consolidating the dictatorship of the proletariat is halting weapons sales at gun shows and expanding background checks”.
I don’t doubt that dictators in general don’t want their teeming millions to own guns. But I don’t think you’re doing the gun rights cause a lot of good by trying to link Obama with Lenin via Bill Ayers (Obama has behaved far more like a typical politician playing to his base than a fire-breathing Commie). And preventing Americans from arming themselves is kind of a lost cause, seeing how many already do.
None of those quotes are in Lenin’s long Wikiquotes page. In fact, the word gun isn’t there. Not surprising. Gun rights as a term is quite recent and it’s doubtful that Lenin or his translators would have thought to use it. The ngrams chart shows that it was virtually unused before 1990. Anybody with any sense of history or language would see that immediately. Though, admittedly, nobody with a sense of history or language could call anything that the Democrats have ever done a “gun grab.”
As for Obama, the best quote on that subject is one I can’t find again, so I can’t credit the writer properly. But it went something like, “America wanted a conservative Republican for president in 2012, so it elected one.”
It’s pretty implausible that Lenin ever had to worry about gun control. It’s not like there would have been a lot of privately-owned guns under the Tsarist regime he replaced.
Regardless of the blurb that used to appear (in Russian, of course) on the front page of Pravda, Lenin was just Lenin–not Vladimir Ilyich Lenin, or V.I. Lenin, or Nikolai Lenin, or any such variant–just Lenin. It was a pen name. He was born Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov, but the first two names were not part of his assumed name, though they were with Stalin (Iosif Vissiaronovich Dzugashvili).
Are you sure? Here’s an poster from his revolutionary days where he’s identified as V.I. Lenin. And the cover of What Is to Be Done? (1902) lists its author as N. Lenin.
People are forgetting Engels’ dictum that to destroy the power of the bourgeosie universal single-payer healthcare would be the vector of change. And Bakunin’s insistence on spy-in-the-sky drones to increase the power of the state; or Babeuf’s desire to protect bankers at all costs.
I dunno. It’s not like the tsarists were anything but apathetic in even those things for which they felt most strongly — I’m pretty sure that as in most of Europe at that time, if you could purchase a gun no-one cared unless you tried to shoot a noble*. After all most men in the Balkans had guns and used them, whilst people like Lenin, Stalin and Trotsky went hunting together for fun — yet alas, no magic Cheney moments…
*Bearing in mind, the general lack of use of a death penalty in the Tsarist state, reserving it for political assassinations, they managed 4000 executions in 85 years, about as many as the USA managed in their best 25 years; compared to 1000 a day during The Soviet Great Purge
Now that I know that Lenin opposed terrorism, I guess we should start lobbying for our government to support it, right? Since anything Lenin or Hitler supported, we should do the opposite?
Besides which, even if those quotes were genuine, the first quote is explicitly clear that Lenin wanted the vast majority of the country to be armed. Doesn’t that rather undermine the argument?
There is also another item folks like that miss, The German Kaiser efforts to ensure Lenin took over in Russia:
In a recent BBC documentary about the Great war it was noticed that the Kaiser not only did that but sent money and weapons to the Bolsheviks to ensure that the side that wanted to end the war in Russia came on top over there, how ironic that 3 decades later the Bolsheviks of WWII would run over Germany.
So yeah, the OP has no clue about the real Marxist roots regarding guns.
I disagree, first of all because Lenin’s “first name” could not be both “V. I.” and “N.”; also, from an article in Dictionary of Misinformation by Tom Burnam:
“But the N. does not stand for ‘Nikolai,’ a legend perhaps spawned by knowledge of his father’s middle name, Nikolaevich, or ‘son of Nikolai.’ In European and particularly in Russian writing, N. (possibly for not or in Russian nyet) is a conventional symbol for anonymity, thus a hint that Lenin is a pseudonym.” (p. 137, 1975.)
Lenin used eight other pseudonyms before settling on “Lenin,” which he sometimes signed “N. Lenin.”
Incidentally, about the “firearms” quote, it’s unlikely Lenin made such a statement, since he died in January 1924 and had nothing to do with the firearms issue current in the United States forty years later, the ultra-right-wingers who misquote him notwithstanding.
Obviously not simultaneously. But you wrote “Lenin was just Lenin–not Vladimir Ilyich Lenin, or V.I. Lenin, or Nikolai Lenin, or any such variant–just Lenin”. I was giving examples of times when he did use a name other than just Lenin.
So, in conclusion, Obama is a communist who hates white people, along with every person who voted for him, who supports higher taxes on the wealthy, background checks for gun purchases, and/or gay rights. Amirite?
Only on the Dope could a thread accusing President Obama of being a Communist gun-grabber get derailed into a semantic discussion about the proper form of Lenin’s nom de guerre.
