Sitting here, I can’t say that you are wrong, but would have to research it. I find it hard to believe that a simple “intent to defraud” could be shown when this is a national election and everyone knows that Biden won, say, PA. If a group shows up with a certificate saying that they are the “true” electors from PA who are voting for Trump, then all are on board with understanding the whole scenario. These people are simply claiming that Trump won PA, which the evidence shows is false. Nobody is deceived, and the “forgers” know this, and therefore the intent to defraud is absent.
Again, I would have to look again, but that is my off the cuff argument/thought.
Or, you could be falsely charged with counterfeiting because you’re on the Big Boss’s enemies list. Back in the early 1970s, some shop in Marin County was selling coffee mugs with a cartoonish picture of a Richard Nixon 3-dollar bill on it.
The Secret Service swooped in a confiscated them all, accusing them of owning/possessing/selling counterfeit money. (The story was met with universal ridicule, of course, and the case was quickly dropped.)
From what I understand, such cases are usually about copyright violation, not forgery. The design is owned by the government, and you have to get their permission and probably pay a fee before you start selling copies printed on mugs, towels or T-shirts.
That’s not true at all. U.S. currency designs are government works, so they are not copyrighted or trademarked. You do not need government permission or have to pay a fee to the government to use government works - they are all by definition in the public domain. There are only a handful of exceptions, and currency designs aren’t one of them:
Huh. I guess I’m so used to U.S. copyright law that something like that never occurred to me. It seems really weird to me to copyright money, but it seems that UK currency is indeed held under copyright by the Bank of England.
It would mean that every time you use currency to buy something, you will have to pay a royalty to the currency copyright holder. What a strange notion.
Oh wait a minute. We already do that, even here in most parts of the United States. We call it “sales tax” here.
It shows intent to interfere with the electoral process, an indictable offence under 18 U.S. Code Section 595. So you might to keep your crayons in the box and the Nixon novelty mugs on the shelf.
I would suggest there are two tiers of guilty for the signers. I certainly hope the DOJ and state prosecutors investigate the entire scheme and hold those who cooked it up responsible. Despite the always wise words of Ann_Hedonia, it would be MOST ideal if the 45th president can be tied to this plot and prosecuted, but at the very least Rudy and most of the former president’s campaign staff should be convicted. Sadly, if history is any guide, they will all go serve their terms in prison and never roll over on Trump.
But those who signed the documents fall into two different categories in my estimation. Those in the two states (New Mexico and Pennsylvania) who bothered to put qualifiers into the language of the certificates should be forbidden to ever hold public office at the federal, state, county, or municipal level – have to plead guilty to “something” [low level misdemeanor is fine as far as I am concerned] – pay a fine, and spend a year or so on probation but avoid prison time.
Those who signed and sent in a slate of electors but not bothered to claim the slate was “just in case” in the document itself should be prosecuted and suffer all I mentioned above plus lengthy prison sentences. At LEAST five years before early release is considered and perhaps double that. That is my opinion and good advice for our country if I say so myself. It would eliminate the argument going on in another thread about whether it is better to kill the head or the tail of the snake that has become the modern GOP. Kill them both (and if you want- bury them separately in consecrated soil with a stake through their supposed hearts). Here is a link to the article that showed up and got me thinking along these lines:
And just for the record, I do not believe Trump is as unreachable as others do. He certainly has been good at avoiding criminal prosecution, but he has lost plenty of civil suits and he may have done things where paying off the other side does not get them to drop the matter. I see his reckless criminal behavior not as a masterclass in avoiding self incrimination. I see it as those madmen on motorcycles who speed through traffic on city streets defying the law of averages at every intersection. Running red lights at high speeds, swerving into oncoming traffic, squeezing through ridiculously tight spaces, etc. It is amazing to watch . . . . until the end where they always seem to go airborne and die after plowing into some innocent vehicle. I hope this time Trump does not just get away on the other side of traffic.
I have a Banksy of England 10 pound note with Princess Diana’s picture on it. Is it illegal??? He made them and distributed them at a street fair in London years ago.
I know the general consensus is against omnibus threads, but holy hell, if there is a subject in which one is needed, the legal problems of America’s greatest criminal is one.
Anyway, with it becoming more and more apparent that Trump is damaged goods, interesting things are happening in this case, as dreams of pardons have come to reality:
I don’t necessarily believe these people, but this is notable in that they are definitely trying to claw their way out of any Eastman fallout and, to prove it, spent 41 pages arguing their case.
This reminds me of the Mitchell and Webb skit where Robert Webb is playing a counterfeiter, except his ten-pound notes say “Ten Punds” and the picture on is is the Queen of Denmark.
The thing is, he’s actually TRYING, he’s just stupid. So… is that a crime?
Special counsel Jack Smith has subpoenaed local officials in Arizona, Michigan and Wisconsin — three states that were central to former president Donald Trump’s failed plan to stay in power following the 2020 election — for any and all communications with Trump, his campaign and a long list of aides and allies.
The subpoenas, at least three of which are dated Nov. 22, show that Smith is extending the Justice Department’s examination of the circumstances leading up to the Capitol attack to include local election officials and their potential interactions with the former president and his representatives. The virtually identical requests to Arizona and Wisconsin name Trump individually, in addition to employees, agents and attorneys for his campaign. Details of the Michigan subpoena, confirmed by Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson, were not immediately available.
Cool, thanks. Would be nice if they could ensnare Wisc. Sen. Ron Johnson in this. Doubt it, though. He’s too dumb to really be involved in a any “scheme” substantively (I mean “dumb” seriously, not as some childish taunt).
the false electors in pa were able to keep their toes just on the proper side of the line. ag shapiro looked very carefully at the wording on the documents and they did hedge just enough to stay inbounds.
