Fantasy help needed

In My Humble Opinion
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I recently finished A Storm of Swords by George R.R. Martin. Incredible book - exciting, surprising, complex, shocking, exhilerating and very, very dark. It’s one of the best ever written in the Fantasy genre. However, having finished it, I find myself in a quandry.

You see, I’m a huge Fantasy fan. Or at least, I used to be.

I haven’t found a new writer I liked in about three years. I keep on buying new books by celebrated authors such as Terry Goodkind an Tad Williams, and they keep on disappointing me with bland, juvenile storylines, standard issue “naive farmboy with great destiny” heroes, and cookie cutter Evil Wizards. There’s just nothing new that grabs me, makes me interested in a world, a story, a character. Even some of my old companions have failed me - I’ve outgrown Margaret Weiss and Terry Brooks; I’ve given up on Robert Jordan two books ago; Raymond Feist has been repeating himself for some time; and Marion Bradley has given up writing stories in favor of her political carreer. There seem to be very few authors in the genre I can still enjoy, and whose new books I still eagerly anticipate. I need more!

That’s why I need your help. I need you to recommend to me some good, solid Fantasy writers, writers who write for adults as well as for teenagers, writers who respect the intelligence of their readers. So you know my taste, here are my favorites in the genre :

Roger Zelazny - the Amber series (the first one, at least).
Guy Gavriel Kay - everything, especially Tigana, of course.
Stephen R. Donaldson - All his Fantasy work.
George R.R. Martin, The Dance of Ice and Fire series, and Stephen King, The Dark Tower saga. Providing, of course, that they end as well as they began, because if they go Jordan on me, I’ll be showing up at their doorsteps with a blowtorch.

So Dopers - can you help me out? Can you renew my passion for the genre? Or should I give in to Mrs. Alessan, and start reading more “real” literature?

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Hi Alessan,

You might have already read it, but I picked up Dark of the Gods by P.C. Hodgell after seeing it recommended on a number of threads here. I’m loving it-- like you, I’m a big fantasy fan and have been sorely disappointed by a number of books. This one is renewing my interest. Also, read Philip Pullman’s “His Dark Materials” trilogy (The Golden Compass, The Subtle Knife, and The Amber Spyglass).

Btw, Marion Zimmer Bradley died of a heart attack sometime in '99, I think-- at least that’s what I’ve been told; I can’t do a search right now 'cause I’m scurrying to post before I get back to work!

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Thanks, Rosebud. I’ll check them out.

I had no idea Bradley died (but then, I only learned of Zelazny’s death two years after the event, too). That’s too bad - I really liked The Mists of Avalon, and I still consider it my favorite novelization of the Arturian Legends. Still, it seemed that too often she preferred to present her feminist political agenda (which I mostly agree with) in her novels, at the expense of the stories and characters, making them almost unreadable. The Firebrand is the worst - avoid it at all costs.

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Godstalk is Hodgell’s first novel. It might be hard to find, though.

I suggest Patrick O’Leary (The Gift), Sean Stewart (pick one), Glen Cook (but not the Garrett books-- I prefer the Dread Empire series, but it has come to an end after shuffling though various punlishing houses. Lots of folk like the Black Company books better.) You might also try Jack Vance’s fantasy. The Dying Earth is a classic, and there’s also the Lyonesse series.

BTW – I agree with you 100% about Martin. I have been a fan of his for many years, and I was happy to see him turn to fantasy. My only complaint is that when I pick up each book I know it will end before I am ready to say goodbye ot the characters.

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Have you tried David Eddings?

He (and his wife–she is credited as a co-author on some books) has 2 series out. The first consists of “The Belgariad” and “The Mallorean”, 5 books each. Total 12 if you add “Belgarath the Sorcerer” and “Polgara the Sorceress” at the end (and I suggest you do). Starts off with the dreaded “Farmboy off to find his destiny”, but gets out of that pretty quick.

The second is “The Elenium” and “The Tamuli”, 3 books each. Knight with issues first saves his queen, then the world.

They’re easy to get in the proper order; says “Book One of the Elenuim” or “Book Four of the Mallorean” or whatever right on the cover.

Story lines are the typical “good guy saves the world” but getting there is really a lot of fun, interesting characters, pretty good pace… and more than just a little humor. I personally like the second series better, and would be reading them all again if Mama Crease hadn’t liberated them from me for her own use.

Hope it helps!

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Tanith Lee has been writing for 30 years now, and I have really enjoyed her. Try “the Yang generation” or the “Lord of” series. Avoid her later works. She usually has female heroes.

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Well one book I picked up recently that I really enjoyed was The Redemption of Althalus It’s the newest one by David and Leigh Eddings (You know… The Belgarion, The Malloreon etc etc) well this one is a stand alone book and I found it pretty interesting. The hero of the story is a theif (well one of the main hero’s there are several but Althalus is the main main hero) Sometime one of the c’s sorta reminds me of Polgara and another sometimes of C’nedra (That’s right isn’t it?) but then when you read lots of boks by one author you start to see the c’s you know in new ones.

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Tanith Lee has been writing for 30 years now, and I have really enjoyed her. Try “the Yang generation” or the “Lord of” series. Avoid her later works. She usually has female heroes.

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This is all great, guys.

CreaseMunky, TopazAntares - I tried reading Eddings, and I can’t say I was too fond of him. I read the first four books of The Belgarion during one wretched week in a Gaza base, and I discovered that i couldn’t care less what happened in book no. 5. I don’t know, he just never seemed to “click”.

Spiritus Mundi

One reason I love Martin is that in many cases, the characters say goodbye to you before you’re ready. That’s the thing about DoI&F - I’m pretty sure the world will be saved, but I’ll be damned if I can tell you if any of the “heroes” will survive to see it.

BTW, I’ve also read some of his earlier books - *Armageddon Rag, Dying of the Light, Tuf Voyaging, Nightflyers. *Good stuff.

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Try these - I’ve been in the same boat as you lately, but I’ve found some treasures in the pig trough:

Gregory Frost, “Tain” - a novelization of the Tain Bo Cuailnge, the great Irish epic starring CuChullain and Conor MacNessa. Kinda bloody, but well written and unique.

Jack Whyte - the Camulod Chronicles, starting with “the Skystone” - an Arthurian epic that starts with (I think) his great-grandfathers serving together in the Roman Legions (I’ve only read the first two novels, so I’m not sure how far back they are in his lineage.) No magic, but plenty of historic setting and “hey, this could happen” going off in the reader’s head.

Terry Pratchett - the Discworld novels - Takes all the fantasy novel cliches and weaves them together into hilarity. My favorite is “the Light Fantastic”.

Anyone else here wonder if Zelazny was maybe working on a final chapter of the Amber novels when he died? The last novel left so many loose threads and unresolved fates for major characters…

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I’ll second the hell out of this suggestion. I’m in the middle of my fifth reading of the series which, unlike Robert Jordan’s Wheel of Time series (which I’ll assume you’ve already read), doesn’t get stale.

Oh, and Kilt, you’re right. They are two of his great-grandfathers.

I’ve just finished the second (and latest) book by Elizabeth Haydn, called Prophecy. The first in the series, Rhapsody, is one of the most unique Fantasy novels I’ve read in a long time. The second one is very slightly romancey, but within the boundaries of the story, not taking over (but I did skip about 5 pages of shit I didn’t need to read about).

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<happy dance> More Hodgell fans! </happy dance>
I plug Godstalk, Dark of the Moon, and Seeker’s Mask at every opportunity. Seeker’s Mask should be available from Amazon within a few months (I haven’t checked the date lately), and Dark of the Gods (which is a compilation of the first two books) is already available. These are my favorite fantasy novels, and I don’t think they’ll disappoint you.

Barry Hughart’s work might appeal to you if you like a bit of whimsy with your fantasy. He has three novels set in a fantasy version of ancient China that are extremely entertaining. Bridge of Birds (the first and best of the novels) and Eight Skilled Gentlemen are available from Amazon; Story of the Stone is out of print, but Stars Our Destination Books publishes an omnibus, The Chronicles of Master Li and Number Ten Ox. They’re currently sold out, but plan to print more.

I personally like Mercedes Lackey; she doesn’t generally suffer from the formulaic fantasy disease that Alessan mentioned. I’ve noticed that people tend to either really like her work, or to be utterly unimpressed. I would recommend against starting with the Last Herald Mage trilogy–it’s depressing as hell. The Black Gryphon is a good read, and it’s the chronological starting point for all of her (22, I think) Velgarth novels. Some of the later books have a timeline in the front that will provide the chronology, although the story might have more impact if you leave the Mage Wars (Gryphon) trilogy until after reading the first book of Mage Storms. Some of the books, notably books 2&3 of Mage Wars, Brightly Burning, and all three of the Last Herald Mage books just flesh out the back story, and can be skipped without losing the storyline. I don’t generally recommend her urban fantasy, although I’ve been known to read it occasionally.

FTR, I don’t like Eddings either. I didn’t even get through the first four books, like Alessan. By the end of the second book, I was ready to kill off all the characters myself. Blech.

I think that’s enough for now.

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Kilt-wearin’ man:

Read 'em all. My favorite is Lords and Ladies, or perhaps Men at Arms. I don’t really think of him as a parodist, but rather as a serious fantasy writer with a healthy sense of humor.

And I agree with you about Zelazny, although I thought Lord of Chaos was so poor that he may just have grown tired of the series.

blessedwolf - I don’t mind a little romance; remember, I’m a Guy Kay fan. Just so long as they don’t get carried away.

Balance - I’ve read some of Lackey’s books, and I’m pretty much in the “unimpressed” camp. Perhaps I’m just a member of the wrong gender.

I’ll check Hughart out, though.

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Firstly: Yes, Zelzany had some sort of plan for a third cycle of Amber books, based on a reality more real than Amber and Chaos. Where the Serpent and Unicorn come from. My source for that is a number of notations in the Amber Diceless Roleplaying Game and Shadow Knight, the companion volume. There were apparently some fanzines with some elsewhere unpublished fiction of his in them, as well.

Secondly: Reccomendations.

Fantasy (Humor)
Villians by Necessity, Eve Forward. A reverse-quest to put evil back into the world.
Happily Ever After. Another reverse quest… partially by Zelzany. He died before writing more than the framing scenes. It’s got his name on the spine. I believe Aspirin is one of the writers.
A Night In The Lonesome October: Zelzany again, with art by… goodness. I’ve forgotten. G… something. Utterly distinctive lumpy-creatures. Gahan? The Ripper. Dracula, and all that.
Grunts! Mary Gentle. Very funny in a vaugely disturbing way, about Orcs that discover modern weapons and generally how to be a U.S. Marine, from a cache in a dragon’s cave.

Dave Barry has written a NOVEL, named Big Trouble. This is not a collection of shorts.

Fantasy (Serious)
Ash, a four part book in America, a single book in England, by Mary Gentle. Bi-associated lost history. Very good. About lost Burgandy.

Harry Turtledove’s various alternate history books are very good.
Harry Harrison’s are less so.
S. Stirling’s book about the Coast Guard Square Rigger Eagle and the island of Nantucket sent back to 3600 BC are fairly good.

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Well, nobody I can recommend to you will equal Martin. At this point, he’s the best fantasy author I’ve read.

I assume that you will have read Tolkien by now, but if you haven’t, do!

I second (fifth?) everybody’s recommendation of Hodgell’s God Stalk.

I would also recommend Piers Anthony’s Out of Phaze, though it is somewhat on the line between fantasy and SF. I do not recommend proceeding to Blue Adept.

Also entertaining are Fritz Leiber’s Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser series, but in a purely light-hearted way. The stories are in no way superior to Jordan or Goodkind, except that they are much, much shorter. (Bear in mind, though, that I like Jordan and Goodkind, though not as much as Martin).

Avoid David Weber’s Oath of Swords! Weber’s SF is mostly enjoyable; his fantasy stinks.

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If a theology student asked you to recommend some religious literature, would you say “the Bible”? :wink:

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What?! And here I thought you were a straight male, like me! :smiley:

Nah…I understand what you’re saying. Granted, a lot of her work probably does appeal more to women. FWIW, my favorite is Black Gryphon–it has a lot more “guy stuff” (derring-do, war, and ogling females in particular) than most of her books. Like I said, some people just plain don’t like her stuff. As long as you try Hodgell and Hughart, I’ll forgive you. :slight_smile:

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Hmm. You don’t like who I do like, and you do like who I don’t like.

I probably can’t recommend many then.

But maybe you should check out Jack Vance. He has a unique spin on the genre. Takes the standard characters, and makes them really… weird, and appealing in their quirkiness. Realistic, too, in a sense.

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Danimal wrote:

Oh yeah? How many hit points does he have? What’s his Armor Class? How many attacks per melee round does he get?

I’ll bet Tiamat could beat him inside of two rounds. Tiamat’s got 5 heads and a poisonous sting on her tail, after all.

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Hit Points? 400
Armor Class? -8
Attacks? 4/1
Science Fiction Writer 18/Fantasy Writer 24
ST:23 INT:25 WIS:25 CON:24 DEX:22 CHA:25

How is that, you say? How can a mere mortal achieve such divine stats?
I’ll tell you how: George R.R. Martin is no mere mortal, he is a god! And not some puny, Second Edition Avatar, no! No, I say, no! He is a full-fledged, maximum-powered, First Edition GREATER GOD! He’ll kick your precious Tiamat back to the first plane of Hell before she realizes what hit her!

Hrumph.