I would think it would be the sexually experienced young woman who has had both good boyfriends and bad ones who is least vulnerable to some shithead who attempts to convince her she can’t do better or that this is how it always is. She’ll also be in far better position to distinguish a non-sensual lousy lover who isn’t good with sex from someone who is a fantastic time in bed.
Teach your daughters how to control their reproductive potential and protect their bloodstream, then tell them there’s good and lousy among the boy (and girl) possibilities out there, and to seek the best and sample the tastiest morsels and have a feast of it.
Excellent point Ellen.. I have a fifteen yr old boy and thirteen yr old girl. The boy is an athlete of some renown.. so we’ve had multiple conversations of what is acceptable behavior.. and what is not. My daughter had been embued with a sense of strength.. and hey.. you’re going to read guys wrong.. some guys will turn out to be creeps.. As I put it to both of them repeatedly.. DEMAND SOMETHING.. If you demand nothing of your mate either at 16 or 26.. you’ll get nothing..
And we should remind ourselves of those poor freshmen girls.. unleashed at undergrad after being under daddy’s thumb.. THAT is not going to happen with my daughter..
I was going to question this too, because that sounds pretty close to the image of India I have. I freely admit I may be wrong, but isn’t arranged marriage very big in India, and are you not supposed to remain a virgin until then? Apparently it was only two years ago that sex before marriage was officially “allowed” there.
Fucking bullshit. I have no regrets about any of my sexual partners. I still look back on all of the past ones fondly because I actually put some thinking into who I will sleep with. I don’t just hop into bed with anyone who will touch crotches with me. I actually listened to my parents when they taught me about sex and how you shouldn’t just sleep with any old slut but with people you love and not once did they say I should wait until marriage.
It was actually my dad who told me that sure I could sleep with any old nasty crack whore but what if she gets pregnant and wants to keep the baby? Then I’m stuck with that nasty crack whore in my life for at least the next 18 years and if I’m fine with that then go ahead and fuck any old crack whore I want.
Of course, and I’m trying to raise my son to be respectful and thoughtful, but I’m only responsible for the one - I can’t possibly make a difference to all the others.
I think it’s a throwback to the days when rape was a property crime. I don’t think this is an evolutionary thing at all- it’s behavior that is tied to a very specific form of property inheritance (when one male child inherited everything in a family) which is thankfully dissipating just as quickly as the sick sexual controls it created.
If it was an evolutionary thing for men to delay the age of their daughter’s sexual involvement, the age of consent wouldn’t be trending upwards wherever women get more say in society. Look at historical male-dominated societies, and note the daughters being married off at 12.
Are you suggesting that in the past a father would have no love for his daughters once they were, say, 13?
It’s a logical implication of what you’re saying.
I don’t want to defend the “no one to have sex with my daughters” viewpoint because it is logically untenable but I will say that it stems from male sexual instincts in a way that is intuitively obvious to a male and will quite probably not be understood by a woman who doesn’t have those instincts, unless she believes me and my fellow males.
There is a certain irony there I am well aware of, it is quite unusual for both our sexes to be on that side of the divide.
I bet that in 1920, most white Americans would have said there was a deep instinct that miscegenation was wrong. The fact that something seems really, really innate doesn’t mean anything. Cultural values feel the same.
It’s hard as hell, but there is a line there that needs to be figured out. I think it is incredibly individualized.
And, as a really messed up teenage boy, the one time the dad pulled the “I’ve got a shotgun, boy” line on me, I continued to be polite, and respectful. And I still fucked his daughter, much to her happiness (and mine). And looking back, I can understand that part of the reason I was so interested in doing so was a giant “fuck you” to the creepy dude who seemed to think it was ok to threaten a 17 year old with death for natural biology.
That all being said, that shit was 20 years ago. I have a 16 year old daughter, who currently identifies as a virgin, and has only “dated” in a “my girlfriend lives in Boston, we skype and text each other all the time!” sense. I desperately wish she lived with me, so I could have some input on how she views dating and whatnot, but I do what I can when she’s here.
I can’t stop her from doing anything she wants to do, but I try to make sure she knows it should always be on HER TERMS, and to be very very careful. And that girls can be just as shitty and mean as boys.
Yeah, the way it was worded, and the way people are replying, I’m assuming there was some big news story about some father going waaaaay overboard with this, that I’d missed somehow.
The fact that there doesn’t seem to be one makes me wonder at the responses assuming this kind of thing is normal. :dubious:
I want to add a thought; my last post sounded snarky or something.
I am not a guy; I do not have kids. But from being AROUND guys AND kids and GUY WITH KIDS, I’m thinking that the ‘father with the shotgun’ impression is one of the few socially acceptable roles for a father to take with his daughter. On the one hand, you DO have a LOT of guys who still aren’t comfortable with the whole ‘feelings’ thing. On the same hand, you have a lot of guys who are at sea regarding a girl baby, especially if it’s the mother’s first child. They might feel out of the loop from pregnancy on; it’s mom’s show. Also on the same hand, a lot of men are divorced, and what kind of interaction do they get to have then if they don’t get primary custody?
Generic stereotypes, yeah, but common enough. And especially once a daughter hits sexual age; a dad might feel like he really HAS to keep a distance so nobody accuses him of anything untoward. Know what I mean? But the ‘I’mma protect you like a he-man, rawr!’ well…it fills a niche. And even if the daughter doesn’t WANT that kind of ‘protection’, it’s still at least understandable to her.
Just rambling here, but I can see where the stereotype has it’s place, and maybe understand a little of the ‘why’.
I think kids that age should be given more responsibility than they generally have (progressively, of course.) But yes, it is something unique about sex. It’s about the messages that young women are sent about sex and the taboo against talking about it even though everybody’s doing it. It’s about a young woman being able to acknowledge her own sexual desire, and not be ashamed of it. It’s a critical age in sexual development.
This was an unecessesarily vitriolic response. I’ll take a crack at it anyway.
It’s great if you made good decisions about sex. Good for you. It’s not always so black and white who is right for you and who isn’t, especially at that age. I was an emotionally vulnerable 17 year old and I was also pretty fucking horny, too. He was my first boyfriend, we thought we were in love. I refused to have intercourse and I even took him to get tested for STDs even though in retrospect I’m pretty sure he was a virgin. For a 17 year old, I probably played it pretty smart.
I’m not ashamed of the decision I made and regret might be too strong a word. I think it was the right time for me… as right a time as there could ever be. But for reasons I’m not getting into here, it didn’t end well. I look back on it as a mostly negative experience. I didn’t even enjoy myself that much.
That is the only consensual sexual experience I have had with anyone other than my husband. So I think there are situations where you can regret something without having been a complete fucking idiot about it.
But the point, of course, is that the whole goddamn world didn’t end just because I gave a blow job to a manipulative idiot.
I understand that a feeling doesn’t have to come from anything innate and it is difficult, if not impossible, to tell the difference. But I have been brought up in a very liberal way and cannot think at all of any reason to feel the way described in the OP, but if I had a daughter then I could imagine feeling it and having to overrride it in my mind.
It is possible I am wrong of course. Seems hard to tell one way or another.
But do you think fatherly love of daughters is learned?
I’ve known people who have drown their own daughters at birth for being the wrong gender. Culture makes people do fucked up things. Especially, it seems, to women.
I don’t see any connection between “fatherly love” and “my daughter must never feel sexual desire or pleasure and if any boy/man ever looks at her with desire I am going to kick his ass to teach him respect”.
I mean, do you think fathers do not love their sons when they give them condoms?