Father of two here and Former (hell who am I kidding, make that still/constant) horndog.
In both of my children’s cases I had nothing against them having sex, sex is wonderful, I just wanted it to be their decision.
I taught my son to respect women and if a girl says no it means no. (must have worked he had girls chasing him in HS)
With my daughter ( younger of the two) I probably made a I’ll be cleaning my shotgun when her dates show up jokes when she was a baby but and this is a huge but things changed a bunch by the time she started dating. Allow me to quote from the toast I gave at her wedding back in June.
She finally found the guy that could keep up and she married him.
It’s a ordinary reality in rural China, where I spent some time teaching. The 1990s, when my students were growing up, was a bit of a female infanticide heyday, and many families had experience with it. With 40 million missing girls, it’s hard not to meet affected families, especially in areas where ultrasounds were not a financial reality for rural household.
It was described to me as “abortion after the baby is born,” but the context left no ambiguity. Never underestimate the power of a misogynist inheritance system.
Father to 20 year old daughter and 22 year old son.
They’re normal healthy young adults. If they have sex, it’s their business. BOTH of them were raised to have respect for their own bodies and for the minds and bodies of anyone they found themselves attracted to.
My daughter’s vagina is no more my property than my son’s penis is. It’s largely a sign of dimwitted backwards-thinking Neanderthal fathers ( IMHO ) when you hear men talking about how they defend their daughters’ purity.
First and foremost, it means that their young adult daughters are in no way capable of negotiating their own sexuality - and for that matter relationships. So, how’s that work? On their wedding day, the father of the bride takes the new husband into a room and tells him it is now okay to sleep with his daughter? That he’s given permission?
Do you think women are this stupid? Do you think we are unable to perceive, learn and adapt to what young men are thinking? Do you think we know nothing of sex, and are entirely unable to think about consequences of relationships? That even as teenagers we dont talk to each other, talk about what boy tried what with what girl? Do you really think - in todays sexualised world and with all of the internet at our fingertips - that youve just revealed some deep horrible secret about boys and teenage girls should run and cover their eyes?
My stepdaughter will be 15 at the end of the year.
I find a man trying to keep his daugher from being raped no more objectionable than any display of supposedly violent machismo, but the idea of the father telling a suitor “even if she wants it, even if she asks, I’ll beat you up if you do” is inapropriate at best.
Thing is, teenage girls can be horndogs too. That doesn’t mean it’s ok for an adult to get with a teenager, but it means a teenage boy who has sex with a teenage girl isn’t necessarily doing something to her.
… and that attitude is creepy no matter how it manifests.
Tangentially, I don’t believe in the notion of “teenage rebellion” or that it’s inevitable for teenagers to hate their parents. There’s an undercurrent of “you can’t control teenagers” which is true – because they think they’re grown-ups
What’s funny to me is that men think somehow their teen girls are in no way sexual, always taken advantage of, and never the instigator. I have 2 teen girls. We have a very open dialogue and I can assure you, this is not the case. Sorry, you’re teen is no saint, with only pure, virtuous thoughts.
And when men act so possessive of their daughters it IS creepy. How about the father that started shooting through his daughters bedroom door because he knew her boyfriend was in there? He shot and paralyzed that teen boy. And fathers that threaten to or actually physically harm boys they catch kissing their daughters? Do any of you fathers have sons? How would you react if his teenage girlfriends father beat him up? Is that justified, as she is an innocent and your son is just a nasty horndog?
Men need to realize their daughters are people. Not princesses or angels or inherently innocent. Being protective and possessive are two different things. Eventually your daughters will be sexual and guess what? It’s because they are HUMAN and actually WANT TO.
How wonderful that you have a realistic view of your daughter as a human being. You are obviously confident that you raised her well enough to make good decisions on her own. This is the epitome of an actual close relationship between a father and daughter. Not a confused one that requires threats of violence against young men, because a man can’t accept the fact his daughter will grow up one day, and have sexual desires. These men have unrealistic views of their daughters. I love it when a man can accept and love his daughter for the person she IS, not the angel he thinks she SHOULD BE. How can a girl ever live up to those expectations? I applaud you, Sir.
Well, DUH! But it doesn’t mean that they aren’t idiots, like their boyfriends. My wife and I both remember what our friends were like when we were that age: immature and inexperienced know-it-alls (we, of course, were neither). It’s a parent’s responsibility to view all their suitors with a jaundiced eye. And when she’s 13 and he’s 14, maybe it’s good if he is a bit scared of you. Even if you did nothing overt to give that impression. Sometimes just being bigger and older than him, with maybe a look in your eye that says that you have a pretty good idea what he’s thing about is all you need.
No, but that’s the way to bet. And no, not all are uncouth horndogs. Some of them are gay.*
Yes, I know that being gay doesn’t automatically endow one with taste and refinement and that gay guys can be among the most disgusting, horniest horndogs out there. They just aren’t interested in my daughters in that way.
My daughter dated some alarming specimens in HS, and we just grit our teeth and smiled. Now in her 20’s she is engaged to a great guy who is just a year away from his doctorate (in a STEM field!!) so we feel vindicated.
Knowing that teenage boys are horn dogs because you remember how your male friends acted when you were growing up isn’t quite the same is knowing that teenage boys are horn dogs because you were one once!
I’m not a parent, but I can definitely understand how men can be protective of their daughters. You don’t want your children of either gender experimenting with sex prematurely, but when it comes to daughters there is a visceral reaction that isn’t there when it comes to boys. And while it may be sexist, there is some basis for it, as girls tend to be more emotionally vulnerable than boys. However, there is a point where it definitely does get creepy. The whole concept of girls “pledging their virginity” to their fathers seriously creeps me out!
I knew a guy who was really excited about having a son so tht he could teach him all the tricks of getting laid. Then he had a daughter and was freaked out about all the creeps out there.:rolleyes:
Just give the usual grave-faced lecture on “…not always being there to help you or guide your through ______. Your mother and I are trying our best to educate you now, so that you won’t make terrible mistakes regarding _____ in the future…”
Beyond that, I don’t know. It’s with my daughter’s future that I’m feeling a little liberal and it sometimes bothers me.
But no, I do not find overly protective fathers creepy. That statement sounds like something out of a bad teen movie.
I generally think it’s creepy when parents don’t consider their children as complex human beings with their own personalities and desires, including sexual ones, instead regarding them as some sort of extension of themselves stuck in some fantasy ‘simple world’ of ‘childhood’ well past the age of sexual maturity. Dads with shotguns is a facet of this. The point of raising kids is to enable them to grow into healthy, independent adults who make all of their own decisions and make them well, this sort of behavior from parents holds them back.
While I don’t think this is true, since I don’t regret any of the people I’ve had sex with, and I know a lot of people who feel the same way - I DO think that sleeping with people you regret is not the end of the world, and normal enough, especially if you make a habit of having drunk/casual sex with people you don’t know well (I don’t do this, and I think that’s a big reason I’ve never slept with anyone who wasn’t an attractive, nice person and a considerate lover). Mistakes and misjudgments happen, and are something you learn from.
If I have kids, I’ll try to raise them to consider life decisions carefully, and choosing sexual partners, especially when you’re in high school and first navigating dating and sex without both of you having a familiarity with proper protection and birth control methods, is a very important decision.
Since this thread is active again, I have some responses that have been requested of me, that I never answered the first time around.
To all three of you: Hell, I’m no anthropologist either. And it’s really tough to pull India out of its cultural surroundings…we’ve had Muslim influence from Day One, and Christian influence for 400 years. It isn’t like we just had Indian people there for tens of thousands of years.
But it is difficult not to extrapolate and see two different monotheistic religions who had somewhat less than enlightened views on the place of women in society come in to a country that wrote the freakin Kama Sutra, that once had a woman married to five men, that believed that women wanted sex as much as men if not more, and wonder if maybe, just maybe those two religions/cultures had something to do with it.
That isn’t me saying the Brits (or the Muslim influences!) are big fat meanies or anything. Like most Indians, I have very mixed feelings about the British. They did some wonderful things - banned suttee as had been said. They also called us “savages” and “natives” and it was “known” that Indians didn’t feel as strongly about their children as white people, that Indian armies were great, as long as they were led by a white man. It was a white man, Col. Dyer, that fired on an unarmed peaceful gathering in Jallianwala Bagh.
But it’s also the British who listened (eventually) when Gandhi did his marches, who started to see us as people equal to them in rights, who abruptly got up and left India one day, and ended up taking a whole bunch of them to England, and welcoming them into their country. And it was King Akbar who was one of our greatest kings, a Muslim.
So I don’t hate the Brits or the Muslims. I don’t blame them, and I fully admit that Indians were sometimes fucked up. I just genuinely do wonder how much of it stemmed from us and how much from outside sources.
Thanks for listening. All this being said, this is still about men protecting their daughter’s purity, a concept which still makes me kind of want to puke. And whatever the reasons are, a heavy portion of my father’s responsibility was just that - protect me until marriage and then “give” me to my husband. Bullshit on that. I won’t be given to anyone. I am my own person.
Creepy? In general, no - I mean, I’m not surprised that a parent would worry less about their son being date-raped than their daughter…although I wonder sometimes how often parents worry about their son being the date-rapist. And I also think parents (mostly dads?) are often putting their heads in the sand and ignoring the fact that their sons are just as much at risk of being sexually abused as their daughters are (see Fleury, Theo etc).
I have a son and a daughter, and they’ll (hopefully) both get the same teachings from me and their mom when it comes to respect for themselves, respect for others, and the responsibilities and consequences that come with sex. Can I see myself *wanting *to be more protective of my teenage daughter than my teenage son? Sure - and if that makes me sexist or creepy, well, so be it I guess. I mean, my brothers and I were more protective of our sister growing up than we were each other.
But I always remember one of my uncles from my childhood. He used to hand out allowances to his kids (my cousins) in this way: The boys would be called over, and they’d be told about the chores they had to do around the house, and then they’d be handed the allowance. The daughters would have to ‘chase’ him around as he hid the bill behind his back, behind their ears, etc. and they’d have to laugh and giggle and basically ‘flirt’ with him to get their allowance.
I don’t find it creepy. My dad respects my sister and me as smart people capable of making our own decisions. That said he’s still protective and doesn’t want to think about his baby girls having sex (luckily with me he doesn’t have to worry about that). He’s the same way with our cats, who both happen to be girls, but he’s also protective of our neighbor’s boy cats.
I think that most fathers who are overly protective of their daughters aren’t misogynistic, but rather they still see their daughters as sweet, innocent little girls in dresses who still need daddy’s protection. I don’t find it insulting (and I’m a die-hard feminist), but rather I find it sweet. If more men had that love for their daughters the world would be a better place.
A couple years ago I became the father of an eight-year-old girl. I got to tell her where babies come from, what sex is, all the way up to what birth control pills are; that just like you can get a runny nose, she can also get an infection in her ‘lady parts’ from sex with someone who’s also sick and how condoms can prevent that; why some girls become strippers and multiple reasons why it’s not the best career path; and that if she drinks too much alcohol she could pass out and there are boys will try to have sex with her while she’s passed out. I’ve explained that she’ll be better off dating a boy who has a job, is in school and treats her like a lady instead of a hoodlum with his pants hanging off his ass and homemade tattoos on his neck. I also told her I want to meet all the boys she dates before she starts a serious relationship with them. I plan to give each of them a brief interview to find out what kind of boy they are. I realize this isn’t a completely realistic expectation, but I still have a few years.
She’s ten now and learning Tae Kwan Do so that if a boy tries something with her and she doesn’t want to, she can tell him no and make him respect what she says. I’ve tried to shape her attitude that she should wait until she’s 18 and on birth control before she has sex. I realize that she has her free will and she’ll make her own decisions, but I hope I can influence her to make good decisions. I really don’t want to see her become a mother before she graduates from high school, because I know that will lessen her chances of attending and finishing college and impact the rest of her and her children’s lives.
