Are you so fucking irretrievably stupid that you think that I’ve my daughter sitting here next to me reading the thread with me?
See, here’s another real world point: Adults don’t talk about grown-up topics or use profanity or make R-rated jokes in front of children.
Jumping Jeebus Krishna on a cracker the shit y’all make up in order to strengthen your “argument.”
Because there are too many guys in the world who really do have that kind of attitude.
I suppose this is mostly a difference of perspective. I’m not a father, I’m a daughter. Jokes like these seem to ultimately take the daughter entirely out of the equation as anything but a placeholder in a dick-measuring contest. How do you expect that to make a gal feel?
Boy howdy.
I asked that question on page two, and Scumpup said that he didn’t need or want my advice in raising his daughter, along with ‘fuck you’ several times.
I guess he is willing to bet his relationship with is daughter on it.
One hopes that with all the other things one teaches their children, having a sense of humor about life is one of them. YMOV.
Right, I think everyone agrees that that was an attempt at over the top humor. However, he has seriously asserted, several times, that he does intentionally and with forethought, seek to physically intimidate his daughters romantic prospects. He really thinks that is what good fathers should do.
Because the purity ball guys are out in the open about how their daughters sexuality is in their hands, the stuff in this thread is more subtle. If purity ball dads=Phred Phelps, then Shodan is just the guy who won’t let his son play with dolls.
Catsix already asked this, but I will ask it again: do you give the extrafirm handshake to everyone who spends time with your daughter, or only those she is dating?
Most humor comes from surprise or discomfort. In this case, the discomfort that the joke tends to mine is with your child growing up and leaving your control. This might bother former daughters some for at least two reasons: it seems to imply that you are trying to control your daughters sexuality, and two it implies that she is incapable of doing it herself.
It doesn’t really bother me on those levels, because have not been in that position. What bothers me is what it says about men. Shodon, demonstrating that you are there and support your daughter is good thing. As I asked before, is you support dependent on your ability to physically threaten her dates? If she brought over a date who could crush your hand, does that mean you back off and say “all yours”? If not, then what was the point of the extra firm handshake in the first place?
To everyone that thinks this is just a joke and get over it, think about what I said to Skald in this post. There are homophobes out there say ridiculous things. If you start telling jokes about them by simply repeating what they say, how are we to know they are jokes? Saying you won’t let your son play with dolls because he may catch gay doesn’t seem all that sarcastic or sardonic when my brother in law freaked out and said that last week.
Jonathan
My problem with this thread isn’t the hyperbole, where it’s obvious people are joking. My problem is with things like the above (the first six responses, BTW), where they indicate they are serious about this sort of thing.
Here’s what it comes down to: What, other than your Holey-of-Holies, makes you think you are better qualified to raise my daughter than I am? Apparently you believe that because my daughter has a vagina that she must have the same thoughts, feelings, and reactions as you do? Because your father and I are both equipped with a penis we are the same people?
Is that what you are saying?
I believe you need to get your sense of humor re-calibrated.
Actually, yes, but that’s another story. The question for this thread was never “are all men scum?”, but, “fathers of daughters, do you think all men are scum* till proven otherwise*?” Different question by a mile. A sincere answer to that might explore the value of global distrust vs. global trust, the wisdom of extending the benefit of the doubt to people you’re trusting with your loved one’s personal and emotional safety, the difference between how you feel about women vs. men around your daughter, etc. Lots of stuff to seriously discuss, if one were so inclined.
<—(see, Skald? They’re useful.)
If I may be so bold as to answer, I’d like to protect my children’s hearts. Their genitalia aren’t so important as their psyches. Sorry, I know that sounds all sappy and shit, and I know they’re going to get hurt and that’s how they’re going to learn and grow and yadda yadda. But I also have some years of experience and a sense of perspective they lack, and when I see “trouble” (be it in a girl, a boy, or a chair tilted back on two legs) my instincts are to shout a warning, if nothing else.
And pedescribe, yes, exactly. The obvious jokes never fooled me; those less obvious responses, I’m still not entirely sure about.
As I have at no time espoused the attitude from those rules, I don’t see the need for me to defend them. Except maybe this one
*Rule Six:
I have no doubt you are a popular fellow, with many opportunities to date other girls. This is fine with me as long as it is okay with my daughter. Otherwise, once you have gone out with my little girl, you will continue to date no one but her until she is finished with you. If you make her cry, I will make you cry. *
Yeah, that’s pretty much how I feel, though it’s unfair, as it denies the fellow the right to end the relationship. But it’s about love.
One of my cousin’s is a lesbian. She hasn’t had the best of fortune when it comes to picking lovers, and more than once when I’ve seen her with a woman whom I think is going to treat her ill, I’ve had to resist the impulse to threaten a beatdown. It’s not about the gender of the guy she’s going out with, and I certainly don’t think of my cousin’s vagina as my property (as catsix, not you, suggested).
I don’t have this sort of reaction to the males in my family, but it’s not the same situation. I don’t have younger brothers or male cousins, and my son died long before this could ever become an issue. A lot of this is age-based as well as gender-based.
My post was clearly directed at
So it appears that it is not I who is the irretrievably stupid one.
So I observe. And, because I owe you for giving me the single best piece of advice I’ve ever received hereabouts, I am resurrecting the genetically engineered winged flame-breathing venom-spitting circular-saw-penised howler monkeys and sending them to steal EVERY SINGLE SMILEY in your possession and bring them to me, whereupon I will sell those smiles TO YOUR ENEMIES so they may use them aagainst you. And on the way I will have the monkeys destroy Carthage, just to make Cato happy.
:smack:
I know how to pluralize, I swear! That was supposed to be a contraction!
Really? I have known my daughter for seventeen years - for how long have you known her?
It is always fascinating to meet people who know my children better than I do. On what are you basing your assumption that she will sneak around my back if I don’t like her boyfriend? Is that what you did? Do you have daughters who do that?
Do you have daughters at all?
So the message your father sent to you is, “if you ever have problems with a boy, you’re on your own. Don’t bother me - I got troubles of my own.” Is that it? He never wanted to meet any of them, showed no interest in whether or not they were decent people - nothing like that. Entirely up to you, and any sign of concern on his part would have shut you down completely.
Right?
So you have really never heard of sexual harassment, or rape? Neither you, nor anyone you ever heard of, was ever pressured to be sexual when they didn’t want to, or weren’t ready?
Or do you believe that lesbian sexual harassment is just as common as that committed by teen-age boys?
I can’t decide whether to laugh at you, or feel sorry for you.
We’ve already addressed this. Only an idiot, or a criminal, believes that they are cleared to attack my daughter if they can beat me in a street fight. If you believe that, I am prepared to believe that you are an idiot rather than the other.
Regards,
Shodan
This thread reminds me of the other trainwreck I was reading through randomly yesterday, about the man who was jealous of his girlfriend’s female friend being super touchy feely with her to the point of groping, and then he put a wristlock on the friend at one point. (Yes, this has a point.) Feeling jealous or annoyed is natural, but using physical contact, however brief or small, isn’t a good idea.
So…feeling protective of daughter = good. Making remarks about keeping her away from all men till she’s thirty in all seriousness, or siccing the hounds on boy who makes out with her on the porch = bad. Making cheesy jokes about it = eh…morally neutral but kind of lame, considering that even dead baby jokes are no longer edgy.
And we can all agree that the Purity Ball guys are sick. Whenever I read articles like that, I really, really hope that their daughters one day end up throwing away their purity rings and blowing guys in toilet stalls. (Well…there is a time and a place for everything, and it’s called college!)
Whynot said:
The basic problem is I can’t tell (on this topic) when you men are joking anymore.
I’d like to offer another angle on that. Maybe some of the men in here are just venting. They’d never go to the absurd lengths described to intimidate the guy coming to pick up the daughter. But these men are relaxed in here, have a chance to vent some frustrations and so on, rather than inflict their “neuroses” on their daughters.
I’d also like to say that I’m not really sure about Dope etiquette—the thread is addressed to fathers. I wasn’t sure if I was welcome, since I don’t have a daughter. But, I’m a man and feel protective toward nieces and such. I don’t mean to be rude or pointed about it, but the OP was talking to men, not women. Corollary: I’ve lurked around threads aimed at women, e.g. the one about how women masturbate. Maybe that’s like a “girls night out, men aren’t invited,” and I tend not to post in threads like it. They might rightly (?) tell me to butt out.
But women have posted in here in that I’ve learned a lot from what they’ve said, which has caused me to reconsider my views. I don’t mean to say that’s totally ok though as I’m not sure the OP’s question hasn’t been altered in places from what I think its original intention. Has there been stuff verging on threadshitting, hijacking, etc.? I don’t know; I’ll leave that to the OP and my fellow dopers to decide.
I’ve only been in the Dope for about a year, and maybe this has been discussed elsewhere, but does a move to the Pit often/usually cause a thread to devolve? Or is that a chicken-or-the-egg scenario? Some tempers flared before it was moved, but then putting it in the Pit seemed to open a floodgate of f-bombs and the like. Just an observation.
I really cherish humor. You have to laugh sometimes because if you don’t, you’ll cry. But I recognize that there’s always someone who might be offended.
lobotomyboy63: Q-Why can’t gypsies have babies?/A-Their husbands have crystal balls! [waits for laughter]
listener A: You know, I’m a Romani…are you trying to same our men are effeminate?
listener B: My husband and I can’t get pregnant. I can’t tell you how much that joke hurts me!
listener C: Oh, that old stereotype about gypsies stealing babies…YOU RAT BASTARD!
[I’m resisting the urge to make a joke about a post already made because…well, you know.]
IIRC it was Mark Twain who said that the only really effective weapon man has ever developed is humor. I wonder what his take would be on this thread.
It was just an example. You know perfectly well that folks were saying similar stuff in this thread.
Speaking as someone coming from the younger side of the situation (little sister as well as kid) - you must be aware of how quickly “I just want to protect the youngin” can turn into (or be seen as) “I know better” and “I’m in charge” and “kid can’t take care of herself”.
And the uber-manly handshaking, karate-bragging, joking about firearms and blowing up genitalia - it doesn’t sound like protectiveness, it sounds like macho bragging and control issues.
I meant that I was not going to defend what other persons said but which I did not. Why should I?
Well, it seems like you already are defending them, since you’re explaining their/your point of view. If I mistook your intent, I apologize.
I’m just trying to explain why such joking/venting can get taken badly.
I think catsix has right to be offended by whatever the hell she wants, and I have the right to roll my eyes at guys who need to use their daughters love life to feel manly about themselves. If that isn’t you, then fine. As I have stated over and over, the problem with the jokes in the thread is that some of them were indistinguishable from what real fathers have said and or done in real seriousness. Even in the more modest version Shodon is seriously espousing comes off as overly protective and possessive, while implying that fathers are only as good as their grip is strong.
This is a text based medium. All I know about any of you is what I read. When someone types the exact same words that I have heard in real life, said in deadly seriousness, why should I assume it is joke? I don’t really find the hyperbole all that funny to begin with, but a lot of the early posts didn’t sound like jokes at all, and that was when the thread changed tone to me.
On preview:
What you keep leaving out of the quote is the real question(I even bolded it last time to make a point): If what you just said is true, then what is the point of the extra firm handshake? If the fact that you are stronger then them is irrelevant, why are you demonstrating it?
Jonathan
On second preview: holy crap this thread is growing fast!