Oh, shut the fuck up. I didn’t respond to the OP, and I’m well aware that he had no problem on that point. But several people brought up the subject before I said anything, so I participated in the discussion. If you don’t like it, tough shit.
Awesome. I’ll look forward to reading the next thread you decide to self-righteously ruin.
I for one would be most interested to encounter a teacher who thinks they gets tons of, maybe even too much, time off.
Everyone who’s done the job feels overworked and underpaid for the amount of shit they put up with. The people who call bullshit on that are always on the outside looking in.
If everyone who’s actually done the job is in general agreement, I find it rather hard to take the other side credibly.
Right, by pointing out that Diogenes is full of shit, I’m the one who self-righteously ruined the thread.
You’re really smart.
An extra 2 weeks of work over a whole school year? Did they hire out their grading and most of their planning?
Because that’s a bit over 2 hours a week total extra work.
My mom and aunt usually put in at least that much time every weekday night just in grading and prepping for the next day. Another couple-three hours a week to fill out their plan books for review. That’s an extra work day and a half every single week of the school year=48 extra days= 9.5 weeks.
And that’s before they ever actually, you know, plan any lessons, decide on any homework assignments, or write any tests. If you’ve been teaching the same grade and the same subject out of the same book for a few years, you can spend a fairly small amount of time on this because you’ve already developed something that works and make only minor tweaks to be ready to go. If you’ve moved to a new grade or new subject or there are new textbooks, you’re looking at a good 5 hours a week on that. Unless you want to buy pre-planned modules out of your own pocket.
I agree that student’s education should be well rounded. But 4 years of required math and science here in Texas and many other states is going above and beyond exposing them. It is forcing them to take essentially the same class over and over for 4 years that they hate, that they will never achieve success in, and that is keeping them from getting a HS Diploma, which means a lot in the private sector and for college.
I agree that students should be forced to take a few classes that are outside their interests. I took photography and enjoyed it, even if I wasn’t any good. But I wasn’t forced to take 4 years of it.
For the record, drewtwo99, all the naughty-name-calling going on up there is mostly because you posted in the Pit, which allows it. Your OP would probably have been OK in Great Debates, where name-calling of other posters is not allowed, although the logic is just as spotty. I’m pretty sure this debate has happened there a few times.
So if the issue is that teachers have to be “in the office” from around 7:15-3:15 every weekday, and then they’re off, well, that’s taking a literal view of work hours.
First, many teachers (in my experience, damn near everyone who was starting or mid-career) advise clubs or after/before school activities. In my case, I did both - 6th grade basketball and computer club. That kept me at school until 5 or so at least three days out of the week.
I had a prep period when kids went to ancillary (PE and music/art, until the school shut that down in favor of test prep). Lunch - yeah, you can take it “away” but in my experience elementary teachers tend to spend at least some of the period with your class to deal with discipline and have some down time with the kids. If I actually had honest-to-goodness free time, I might get some grading done so it wouldn’t come home with me. But mostly it’s running around the school dealing with the minutiae you can’t do when you have a classroom full of kids - planning with other teachers, meeting with the registrar, calling parents, etc.
I also did test camp on weekends. If you were a lead teacher you got paid something, but if you were there just to support, nada. But it paid off because the kids generally liked coming and playing games - that’s why I did it.
I easily worked around 70 hours/week in my first year. My health suffered as result - not enough sleep and too much stress. So I eased up the next year, but found myself slowly doing more out of necessity (wanting to see kids improve their state test scores, improve discipline, be a better pedagogue). I don’t think I was a great teacher, and in retrospect, a lot of things I did I learned to do much faster over time. But no, teachers do not stumble in the classroom at 7:15, teach from memory, and go home after the bell rings. You can easily add 1-2 hours to the school day from the necessary tasks that everyone performs (except for the worst of the worst).
My roommate from college and I lived together. He was a creative director in a mid-sized firm, and we definitely agreed that I worked longer hours. On top of that, it’s physically demanding. I always wanted to figure out how to sit down and run a class - I don’t think it’s possible with fourth graders. You’re up and down, answering questions, separating kids from each other, doing recess duty… people forget this aspect of the job.
I’m almost 40, a professor on the tenure track at a flagship research institution, and after two grad degrees at the allegedly best school in my discipline in the nation - and teaching was without question the most demanding, draining, exhausting job I’ve ever had. I knew teachers who were working to take their kids to DC or London for field trips who worked three times as much as I did. Being an excellent teacher means you have no free time - and there’s no overtime.
I say this not for pats on the back, but just to give those who have never taught an idea of the time and physical stress involved in the job.
Oh, and Drew, don’t let the bastards get you down. In the immortal words of my mother, who put in 35 years in the same elementary school and is rumored to have killed/blinded/put in a coma a student a year by throwing a stapler/mug/eraser/pair of scissors at his/her head: You can lead a child to fountain of knowledge, pinch his nose shut and hold his head under…but you can’t make the little bastard learn a goddamn thing.
Labby, you still haven’t addressed ANY of the concerns I brought up in the original post… I would really like to get your opinions…
How can we improve the relationship between teachers and their students, parents and principles?
Should students be held more accountible by parents and administrators than they currently are, or are teachers squarely to blame?
How can we better keep highly qualified teachers in the career? Why do most burn out after 2-3 years like I did?
Is there an epidemic of bad teachers that we need to get rid of, or do we need to better support the teachers we have?
Given that America’s math and science knowledge and expertise has been going down the tubes for a while now, I’d say that the answer might be not to decrease the amount of math and science education that students get, but addressing WHY the math and science education that they are getting isn’t helping us.
And part of THAT answer is getting America as a whole to recognize that math and science education (and education in general, at all levels) is important, NOT a waste of time, and valuable to everybody. Which is a global variable and not a content-specific one.
Frankly, I’m okay with a person not being able to get a H.S. diploma if they don’t meet a certain minimum level of math and science knowledge, as well as a minimum level of knowledge in English, history, civics, government, economics, and whatever other content areas are deemed important by the local school board.
I guess I posted here because I thought it was more of a rant, and actually, I was hoping to get some lively, upset people to discuss their points of view. I was hoping I might get some insight I hadn’t previously thought of. Sadly, all I am hearing is the same teacher bashing I always have. Too much pay, too much time off, too much tenure, blah blah blah. A few people have addressed my concerns, and it’s been great. I don’t mind the name calling at all. It’s fun!
I am very sorry another good teacher has been driven out of the profession. The kids who want to learn will suffer for it.
Some parents seem to think teachers can just open little Johnny’s head and spoon in the knowledge. Unfortunately, it doesn’t work like that. Merely being present in the room isn’t going to work for most kids - but “it’s the teacher’s fault” if the child doesn’t learn.
Students know now they aren’t required to show respect for a teacher’s authority - because the teacher has none. When my husband was in the Reserves, he was assigned (as an RN) to teach a CPR class to a group of high school ROTC students. His breakdown of the roughly 30 person class was: 10 want to learn the material; 15 are “meh” about the material; 3 actively don’t want to learn the material; and 2 actively don’t want to learn the material and are going to make sure no one else learns it either.
A student at one of the most sought after schools in the county was caught giving another student a blowjob during class a few years ago. The girl’s mother is on record as saying it was the teacher’s fault.
I don’t blame the OP for quitting. There isn’t enough money for me to deal with the bullshit teachers have to deal with.
It’s really nothing to do with the amount. The flash points are tenure and salary being based on time in service instead of ability. It’s the same hate unions get. Teachers have banded together, and thus are able to drive up wages to levels higher than they would be otherwise. Then, on top of that, the Teacher’s unions are politically active, and thus play a pretty big role in determining the people who negotiate their salaries.
Thanks! I actually really loved the students and am missing them a lot. I didn’t have much trouble with the students flat out refusing to learn. Most of the students who were failing were just apathetic, not outrightly rude or disruptive. The ones who genuinely gave it their best effort ended up passing. The ones who didn’t also ended up passing because the administration forced it on me.
Honestly, I think it’s going to be tough. There are so many unusual aspects of the job that make for a rough time.
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You’re caught in a political crossfire, and catching mega hell from the right because of talk radio and general stupidity.
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People are defensive about their kids, and generally scared about what bad reports mean for their future.
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Teachers and administrators make for good scapegoats in areas where public schools are really awful.
It’s not just the students who know this. It’s the parents and the administration too. And yet they want to pretend like the teacher has all the responsibility and power into making sure their student succeeds, because our country has a problem with accepting responsibility.
Pff, trust a teacher to turn ranting into homework.
Luxury.
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I for one would be most interested to encounter a teacher who thinks they gets tons of, maybe even too much, time off.
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I (almost)get too much time off. I’m chomping at the bit by the time mid-August rolls around. By then I need to get back into the classroom bad. Teaching is worse than heroin.
What level do you teach at?