Feds 'black-bagging people' in Portland

And here’s the rub: There are two hundred people. There are fifty police. There are five people breaking windows.

Unleash the hounds! On everyone! They’re a crowd of criminals now and they deserve literally anything and everything we might do to them!

Let’s be clear - the barricades and fences here are not valuable ones. They don’t matter.

There is a difference between “arrested” and “hit with toxic gas and then shot in the face”. If a cop can’t manage to do the former that is not license to do the latter.

And I don’t think that anybody really thinks the cops are in any credible physical danger, so no, attacking the crowd is not justified.

Was your neighbor kid wearing body armor?

Has any cop -ANY cop- actually been maimed during these protests?

Let’s be clear here, if the crowd starts actually maiming cops, then the police have license to retaliate only against the members of the crowd maiming the cops. This is, of course, not possible for them to do, so the only MORAL thing for the police to do is retreat.

And if a cop does get maimed, well, guess what? They’re cops. There’s risk involved, and they knew that when they signed up.

Tell me about the damage those HAVE done, then. How many cops are in the hospital for holes burned through the backs of their skulls?

to be fair, lasers can cause severe damage to the eyes.

Can being the operative word here. You do have to actually hit them in the eye, and it’s not instant, so you have to hold it there while they stand still. And some pretty cheap glasses will filter it out.

I put lasers in the same category as rock throwing. Extremely minor annoyance with a slim chance of actual injury, but is used to justify disproportionate retaliation against innocent and peaceful protesters.

Red lasers, at least man portable ones, can’t cause permanent damage AFAIK. The green ones are where the photons have enough energy to maybe cause damage.

Kinda puts a whole new spin on “broken windows policing.”

It is interesting in that both sides are guilty of doing something that hurts only themselves:

Most cops are good cops, honest hardworking stand up guys- sure maybe they accept free donuts or something but basically good guys. A few cops are bad cops- racists, over prone to excessive violence, etc. And the good cops know who the bad cops are- but say and do nothing. They protect the bad cops by doing nothing.

Most protestors are good protestors, working for a better America- sure maybe they paint some slogans on the walls, but basically non-criminals. A few protestors are bad actors- mostly Black Blok Anarchists but also some far right instigators and professional looters- and the good protestors can see them smash windows and burn cops cars. But they dont try to stop them- they protect the violent protestors by doing nothing.

Both sides need to read Matthew 7: 3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.

Except that one side represents the govt, has organization and structure. It has rules and punishments for not following those rules. It has guidelines and training to help them follow those rules. It provides the equipment that is necessary to follow those rules.

The other side is a bunch of people.

I keep hearing tales of protestors that do try to stop looters and vandals, actually. Though honestly I don’t expect average people to do the jobs of police - and I consider it disingenuous to expect them to. ‘Granny, go chase that young man down and beat him with your cane!’

Police, on the other hand, I DO expect to censure bad actors in their midst. Okay, I actually don’t expect it, because the police have shown time and time again that they will never self-censure. But if they were an organization that deserved their funding, I would hold them to that higher standard, because they’re funded. We pay them to protect us, not beat us with sticks.

Yeah, but I saw a vid of what was clearly a Black Bloc Anarchist, in all black, body armor and gas mask, calmly walked down a row of windows, smashing them, and other protestors watching and saying nothing.

Sure, the cops have the higher duty as they swore to do so.

But the tear gas and rubber bullets and such come out when the protestors get violent.

Or before. Whichever.

You mean the guy that started the property destruction in Minneapolis, who was recorded but not stopped, because the few people that saw it were NOT armed and armored? The guy that literally NO ONE knew who he was?

It’s reasonable to expect common civilians to do the job of the police, because the police sure as hell aren’t going to - they’re too busy attacking people who aren’t potentially dangerous. Much safer that way - and more fun!

Isn’t the one where he gets accosted by another protestor, shouting at him repeatedly ‘Are you a cop?’ – and the one who was breaking windows then leaves the scene?

And it wasn’t possible to tell, in the video I saw, whether other protestors were “saying nothing”. Wasn’t it the protestors who recorded the windowbreaking?

What do you think that the protesters should do?

It sounds like they did what they should, they documented the crime, and if you have seen it, so have the police. Now it is the police’s job to apprehend this vandal and charge him for breaking windows.

Are you saying that the protesters should have confronted this BBA?

The tear gas comes out before the any of the protesters get violent in far too many cases, and even in the case when it is after “some” violence happens, it is not targeted at those doing the “violence” it is targeted at those peacefully protesting. And when pushing over a fence that was illegally erected blocking a bike path triggers your definition of violence, then you were looking for a reason to go bust heads, you weren’t there to keep the peace.

I was assuming that DrDeth was referring to another incident, as obviously, if he were referring to that one, then he would have been very mistaken as to the reaction of the protesters.

What video were you talking about, @DrDeth?

Not armed.

Clearly a black bloc anarchist.

I wonder whether he saw a version of it that was cut off before anyone had had time to react. There are certainly sites that are deliberately presenting only limited views.

Armed, at a minimum, with the stick/club he was breaking windows with, no?

Link, please, to the video you’re describing, so we can tell whether it’s part of the same one we’ve seen?

No one said he was, they were asking if it was the protester’s job to stop him, with them being unarmed and unarmored.

Because when anybody else puts on clothes like that, an AK47 appears strapped to their back.

If they remove it, another appears in its place.

This is actually the primary method by which AK47s are manufactured.

If you can’t link to the video then it basically only exists in your imagination. Here’s how it works–I saw a video of DrDeth buggering a live dinosaur while holding a ninja sword in his teeth and simultaneously whistling “Dixie!” Do you believe me?

It may not be true but the imagery is AWESOME!!!