I wish I could.
No source or cite satisfy the folks here who ask for them.
That’s certainly an excuse to never back up your arguments.
Absolutely. I agree.
And yet… that is what civilians are supposed to put up with, being tear gassed and beaten and kidnapped when they are exercising their right to speak and protest.
Something I picked up from my boss years ago.
Getting back to the subject . . .
Re: The idea that local or state police should arrest the federal goons:
As noted, any attempt to confront them on-the-scene in real-time is going to become an even bigger clusterfuck than it already is.
But how about having the local and state police treat it like an abduction? They have photos of the perps. Attempt to identify them. Attempt to find where they live (or, if they are imported goons, where they are staying).
Then have the local or state police go to where they are, quietly and low-profile, perhaps late in the evening or early morning, and arrest them there. Send the local SWAT team, get them in their pajamas with their guns elsewhere, and round them up that way.
Which is most likely a federal building. Good luck.
interesting. Because the overwhelming majority of cites provided here across all forums and topics I find reliably factual and informative. Maybe you’re just not doing it right?
They dont live locally for the most part, and honestly, what they are doing isnt blatantly illegal.
However, there is this:
That’s the way to do it, and the ACLU is preparing something also.
This also will give Biden a good excuse to be Barr behind bars.
Per The National Constitution Center, The Federal Supremacy Clause applies only when State Law conflicts with Federal Law, then Federal Law is supreme. It is not that Federal Law always trumps State Law. An important distinction. Pretty sure Oregon supports peaceful assembly and address of grievance, so there no conflict with Federal Law. Yes, Feds can protect Federal Property, but Federal Property is quite limited in Portland.
According to NPR, DHS wants to take this program nationwide.
Just to get something clear, because it’s fuzzy to me from the posts on this thread: do we know if anyone has actually “disappeared,” even if the feds claimed they were freed and went missing afterward? Or can most, if not all, people arrested at least be located?
It sends a very clear message that anyone can be disappeared at any time with no recourse. This is intended to keep people from protesting at all.
Same reason for the use of tear gas, impact munitions and batons when the situation does not call for such use. If anything, it creates a chaotic situation as people fight to get clear.
It’s a good point that just showing they can is message enough. That still makes me curious about the realities of the current situation.
Not so far, in fact, most were questioned then released. Apparently if you say the magic words “I want my attorney” they are letting you go.
But so far.
This does not bode well.
I have friends and kids that are peaceful protesters (in Seattle), and when I see the violence on tv I can see that it’s not the majority, that’s why I guessed at 5% (which might be high, maybe it’s 1%, or it might be low, it might be 10%, not really sure).
It’s certainly a tricky situation when there are two distinct types of people mixed in the group, the peaceful and the violent. I don’t know what the optimal way is to handle the situation, but I know that just letting the police get attacked and allowing the city to get destroyed is not something I will ever think is ok.
Here’s a question for you:
What if a right wing white group of protesters was marching through a predominantly black area and a small percentage were destroying businesses, would you want the police to stand down?
I would be against that activity regardless of color of protester and color of business owner, I would want the police to put a stop to it.
What if a large group of armed and angry white protesters marched into government buildings? What would you have happen to them?
…it isn’t really a tricky situation at all. Its a matter of scale. Its a matter of proportionality, its a matter of basic training. There are thousands of videos of the police and of federal agencies casually beating people at the protests, casually aiming and shooting people with pepper balls, casually throwing tear gas into the middle of the street, casually throwing people off bikes, with almost zero accountability. The police and the federal agencies are rioting. The police unions support the police riots. Government agencies support the riots. Mayors and Governors condone and support the police riots.
Patrick Skinner, a former counter-terrorism ops guy for the CIA and now policeman said this today:
Its time to stop pretending the police are “responding to violence.” People have been protesting for 53 days. I think its time for you to maybe think what it is they are protesting about.
Okay. FFS, Why?
The LEOs that beat this guy… have they no conscience or sense of shame? Is there no commanding officer on the scene to ensure his troops don’t abuse their power and authority? Is there not ONE among them who has the sense that what they are doing is fundamentally morally wrong?
What distinguishes these “cops” from junta thugs and fascists at this point?
Every law enforcement agency (municipal, state, federal) present is either denying responsibility or not responding to questions.
This is what happens when we endorse the militarization of police forces, whether they’re federal or local law enforcement. The problems with law enforcement go beyond just race, although that’s certainly a central issue. But there’s a persistent problem of culture that has turned law enforcement officers into street warriors. We’ve seen this since the War on Drugs, and it’s been amplified during the War on Terror, both of which are really just wars on American citizens. We need to end both “wars,” because both of these are just wars on ordinary people, and some extraordinary people as well.
I’d want them to focus on the people destroying businesses, not the people who were protesting while leaving the vandals alone.