Feeble but important to me.

The BBQ Pit
1

Okay, I’ve worked retail a while and there’s a lot of good and bad when dealing with the public.

The other day a customer came in and spent about an hour trying out various classical guitars. Finally narrowed it down to two but decided to sleep on it. Comes in a couple of days later and plays the same two for another 45 minutes and decides on the more expensive.

In all this interaction we had pleasant conversation and a few laughs about music while I answered his questions and did a little research on the two instruments. Fine.
Then he very politely asks what the bottom line is. He tells me he’s not trying to put the squeeze on me but he knows he can buy this guitar on the Internet and save the sales tax. {about $40} I check the net and find the guitar is exactly the same price. I offer him a good used hard shell case for $20 but he doesn’t want that. He says he likes the personnel service and I remind him that people have to make the choice and be willing to pay a little more to get that eyeball to eyeball service and to have a store to come to to actually play the guitar they want to buy. We also have a couple of techs to helps folks after a purchase as well.

It irritates me to think someone would use our store and merchandise as well as my time to educate himself on which guitar he wanted and then go to the web over $40 dollars. IMO that’s pretty dam tacky. I know people do this all the time on various products. Go to the store to see and touch it and then go to the web to save a few dollars. Some at least have the decency to not take up a sales persons time but at some point the store and that salesperson has earned your business if you decide to buy the item they educated you about. We all have to be concerned about budget and I can understand if the difference is fairly significant but all too often it isn’t. For those who consciously do this type of thing, Shame on you. It’s tacky and selfish.
You know why customer service seems so much worse now at many places. Because the consumer has sent the message to stores that price is king and customer service doesn’t really matter. I mean we want it. We just don’t think we should have to pay extra for it. That’s an unrealistic expectation. Providing customer service costs money to the company and if you want that service to continue then support that company. If we don’t then eventually everything will be owned by a few major companies and then we’ll really be screwed.

2

You know, I hate to wish bad luck on a fellow musician, but if he does end up saving his $40 by buying the same make of guitar on the internet, I hope the one that arrives isn’t as well-made as the one you have in your store. You earned that sale.

3

You get plenty of sympathy from me, cosmodan. I used to work for Egghead Software, where we prided ourselves on customer service and product knowledge. A sizable portion of our customers would come in, ask us all sorts of questions, get our opinions on what software they really needed, and then drive over to CompUSA or MicroCenter or Best Buy to buy it for $10 less.

And you’ll notice that CompUSA and MicroCenter and Best Buy are still around, but Egghead isn’t.

Assholes.

4

I have done some studying of Jewish ethics, and I read once that this is actually considered to be stealing, especially if a salesperson’s time has been used, if one has no intention of actually buying from them.

5

I’ve heard this sort of behavior termed “crap-weaseling”.

I sometimes do inverted crap weaseling. I’ll do a lot of research on line, call a local store, see if they have the item in stock, and buy locally if they do.

I’ll also order online if the item, size, or option I want is not in stock. Typically they will offer to special order, but this usually takes a week and a half. I can typically find it online at a lower delivered price, and have it in hand 3-4 days later. Since I’m 6’5" tall and wear size 14 shoes, this happens quite a bit with clothing.

6

That’s incredibly tacky. And when he and his ilk manage to drive the real stores out of business he’ll be one of the first to complain that he can’t get any help anymore.
I’m fortunate to work in a retail business where people still want to see and feel the merchandise in person. It’s a fabric store, so we still have some of that advantage. I think people don’t think about what they’re doing, or what the consequences will be if they continue to look only at price. I sure don’t want to narrow my choices that much.

7

I bet he had to pay at least $40 in shipping costs.

8

Unless he ordered from Musician’s Friend or Guitar Center, which often feature FREE SHIPPING! on non-heavyweight purchases over $100.

I love shopping local, and do so for all of my consumables (strings, picks, sticks, drum heads, etc.), but as a left-handed guitar player, I’m forced to online retailers or eBay for many of my instrument purchases.

9

I do this too, just to read user reviews and see what a price might be, but I have to hold things in my hands before I’ll buy them most of the time. CD’s and DVD’s don’t count, but clothing, fishing and shooting stuff and electronics sure do.

I don’t think it’s wrong to read Bass Pro Shops web site and then buy the thing from someone local at all.

10

This kind of thing happened frequently when I worked in a retail camera shop. A customer would come in who had no clue about photography and would take up a great deal of time having me explain the different types of camera and features, and then say they needed to think about it. That customer would come back a few days later, with a camera they bought at K-Mart, and say “Can you show me how to use my new camera?”. I was always a nice guy and showed them, but another guy in the store sometimes told them to “take it back to K-Mart and have them show you.”

11

I don’t know, I’m kind of torn on this.

On the one hand, I totally understand where you’re coming from, and I kind of agree.

On the other hand, music is an expensive career/hobby, and sometimes you’ve gotta cut all the corners you can.

I have a local shop here that’s fairly good. I went in and was looking at a particular keyboard (didn’t end up buying one anywhere), and the price tag was $300 or so over Musicians Friend. I felt a little sleezy, but I just asked offhand if they had any policy regarding matching online prices, and they pretty much said, ‘no, you pay for the service.’

I didn’t end up buying a board at all, but the difference between $1900 and $2200 is kind of a lot. Even if it was $150 it’s kind of a lot. I can pick up a few cables, a new mic, or pay my cell phone bill for two months.

Sometimes I go in to just try new equipment. With no intention to buy, at least not at the moment. Right now I’m ‘dreaming’ about getting a new keyboard, and think I have it narrowed down to two, one of which my store carries, and the other is not (there’s only one Yamaha dealer in the area, and he doesn’t carry the board I want). So, eventually when I go visit my dad I’ll find some store in NYC that carries what I’m looking for, go and sit with it for a few hours, and make a decision.

When I do decide, I’ll check to see what it’d cost me through my local store, and then compare with some online shops I’ve had good experiences with. If the difference approaches $200 or more, I’ll go online, definitely. If I was talking about cheaper instruments, I might go online over a smaller difference in price ($200 is around 9% of the cost of what I figure my board will cost).

Of course, I buy all my cables, some sheet music, guitar strings, guitar picks, and smaller items locally, and so ‘justify’ my spending their time (really quite minimal; I’m a pretty hands-off customer, just ask for a set of headphones and go to town) trying out equipment.

Wow, that was a long and boring story. The point is just that, hey, no one has to pay for service, whether or not they buy an instrument from you or anyone else. If they’re like me, they take a loooong time researching, trying out, and just deciding if they want to lay down $1000 plus dollars on a new toy/tool.

Also, if we’re talking something smaller that’s taken more of your time, like you actually spent 45 minutes of hands-on with a customer trying to sell a $300 guitar, and then he or she walks out and goes down the street to buy it for $30 less, then yes, that is pretty lame.

12

And those people are now bitching about how the clerks in those places don’t seem to know much or even want to help them,.

13

I witnessed a similar situation unfold recently, and am torn on it. My boyfriend went to Guitar Center to look at bass guitars. Now, the salespeople at Guitar Center are on commission, which was obvious from the start. Within seconds we were asked by a nice fellow if we needed help, and we said “we’re just looking but we’ll let you know.” My BF knew exactly what he wanted and looked around, found the one he liked, played it a bit, then called the salesguy over. My BF did his research and knew approximately what the markup is on an item like this, and knew what he could get it for online. Guitar Center was supposedly having a “sale,” so he started negotiating with the salesguy. Basically he said, here’s what he had in his pocket to spend, right now. Could he get it for that price, yes or no? So the sales guy had to run back and forth to his manager, checking on how low he could go, and when he couldn’t meet the price, my BF was ready to walk out the door, taking $800 in cash with him. So when they saw that, they finally agreed to his price. Yes, the salesguy got a lower commission than what he could have gotten, but it was still about $25 for about 15 minutes worth of his time (basically just bullshitting about music, etc.) Guitar Center made a sale, and my boyfriend walked away a happy customer. But if they didn’t come down to his price, my boyfriend would have bought online and had no qualms whatsoever about it.

So the questions raised by this are: should brick-and-mortar stores make their prices competitive with online retailers to stay competitive? In the OP’s case, was $40 worth losing a sale over? Couldn’t you have lowered your price in order to secure that customer’s business? Doesn’t the consumer have the right to comparison shop?

I mean, as a consumer, I am looking out for #1, and #1 only. It’s my money and up to me to spend it wisely. I will comparison shop before making a large purchase. If a brick-and-mortar store wants my sale, shouldn’t their price be competitive?

I do feel bad for the OP, and that he wasted his effort and didn’t get the sale, but isn’t the customer’s main concern to get the best product at the best price? As far as my boyfriend was concerned, he was paying for the bass guitar itself, not for the “help” the salesguy provided (which we sensed was slightly suspect from the beginning since he is on commission).

14

I’m with your partner. That used to happen a lot to me at Circuit City. CC made a real effort for years to educate their employees. {They no longer do} We had a rep for being somewhat knowledgeable and folks would call to ask questions about a computer they bought on sale someplace else. I’ve reprimanded a customer or two when I caught them at it. “If you didn’t buy it here don’t call us for tech support”

15

Wow, I never really thought of it as stealing but I can see your point. There’s a trend that I do see as stealing and thats the rent for free folks. Buy it, use it, and return it for a full refund with no intention of keeping it. Return policies have changed because the practice became so wide spread. I don’t blame stores for initiating restocking fees or very short return periods.

16

I understand. I can appreciate the customers who don’t actively seek to pick the brain of the sales person. I can also appreciate being on a budget and wanting to save money. If it was a significant difference I’d sure be tempted. There’s no problem with someone asking us to price match. What we’re talking about is the state sales tax. I know that can also be significant at times. It is in our state.
I’m just saying that I wouldn’t withhold a sale from a local store that had really helped me over $40 bucks and I don’t have a a ton of money.

The other point is that if we continue to buy online and not support our local stores then we will have fewer choices of places to go and sit and play and try things out. Once corporate chains and online stores have driven local stores out of business we’ll have only our own shopping choices to blame.

17

But the difference in your stories seems to be that your BF knew what guitar he wanted going into Guitar Center. At that point, the salesman wasn’t actually helping your BF in making a decision or informing him about the product; he was just acting as a negotiator for a price. If you had decided to leave without buying, I’d stand firmly behind that.

The difference is, cosmosdan (spelled it right that time!) as a salesperson *imparted information to the customer and assisted him in choosing the correct guitar. So his customer was willing to use the store’s resources to gather information, spend a few hours testing the instruments, and then was unwilling to spend an extra $40 on a guitar in exchange for those services.

That seems a bit cheap to me. And while it may not be stealing, it’s certainly shooting yourself in the foot, because if all that matters to you is the cheapest price, eventually you’ll drive out of business stores willing to let you use salespersons’ time and test out merchandise.

Again - your BF took his own time for research and to make his decision; I don’t fault him at all for that. If he’d instead asked a salesperson to help make his decision, and tested guitars for a few hours, and then gone off to a cheaper store, I’d lump him in with dan’s customer.

18

nyctea, some comments from someone who is in retail

Wrong. Your BF would be walking away with 800-x dollars, where x is the amount of money Guitar Center paid to buy the guitar. If GC paid say $750 then your BF is taking only $50 with him

The purpose of being in retail is making money, not making sales. If retailers sell something for a very small markup they are actually losing money because they are barely covering their overheads, let alone make any profit.

Some retailers will actually decide to sell something at a very low price to secure a customer, but in my experience haggling customers have very little loyalty, so it is unlikely that they are going to shop there again.

19

And I forgot to mention that your BF did nothing wrong. I just wanted to comment on those two misconceptions because I see them often.

20

The problem is how do brick and mortor stores compete. A store with employees is more exspensive to keep up than a warehouse that you ship from. The choices you make in looking out for # 1 do effect the choices you get to make down the road. You have a guitar center to go to. As more privately owned stores close down there will be fewer places to go look at instruments and try them out.

Many manufacterers are going to map pricing, {minimum advertised price} That levels the playing feild somewhat. What about sales tax? I suppose we could have come down $40 and sold the guitar cheaper than the online stores but it’s hard to keep doing that and still pay employees and lights etc etc.
I understand your point really. You or your boyfriend are looking out for your own finances so why should you care. I’m suggesting that you should care because you might want to have a local store where you can try things out and ask some questions and get some help after the sale. If you do want that just understand that it does cost a little extra. In this case I don’t think forty bucks was too much to ask.

In your case your boyfriend did the research and didn’t ask much of the salesperson either.
The weird thing about guitars is that they even within the same model number they are unique. Especially Acoustic guitars like this guy played. The one you play in the store won’t be exactly the same as the one you order online. That’s another reason to pay a little extra when you find one you like locally.

It’s not always a clear call but it;s hard to expect a store with employees and upkeep to compete with a warehouse with little upkeep and few employees. If we don’t support our local stores then we can’t realistically expect them to still be there when we want to go check something out. When you choose to save money in the short term it does have other consequences in the long term.