When you can’t produce any evidence to substantiate your claims and resort to namecalling i’ll just go ahead and assume you have nothing to debate.
Here you go, you rubbish:
http://www.boatpeople.com/bp_legacy.html
But, of course, you think anything they say is a lie and they should all be put to death for being traitors.
First quote of the article:
Right, so the majority of people fleeing were South Vietnamese to begin with. People that were afraid that their compliance with the puppet regime might earn them a quick trip to the gallows as traitors.
I saw nothing in this article that supported your claims that MANY north vietnamese soldiers or civillians “defected” as you called it.
Ah, so you’re completely unaware that RVN refers to the Republic of Vietnam. That was the government of South Vietnam.
Didn’t you see “Dead Alive”?
I’m sooo afraid of Sumatran Rat Monkeys now.
Does that make me a racist regarding Sumatrans?
Martin
Errr … pardon? 
Weren’t many of the main characters interracial?
Aragorn, Arwen, Elrond…
All mud-men…ahem, “mud-PERSONS”
I thought you were refering to the North vietnamese army regulars.
Fiesty, this ain’t about an Asian wrong justifies two whitey wrongs. Repeatedly, in multiple threads, Fiesty has claimed that Asians are not racist (with the exception of Japan in WW2). Now maybe splitting hairs by saying all Asians are of one “race” so by definition they can’t be racist to each other. Fine, let’s just assume that “racist” includes genocidal, discriminatory, and prejudiced.
How about an example close to home Fiesty? Your family is from Taiwan, and since you learned Mandarin growing up there are about 99% odds that your family is actually from the Mainland, and most likely moved to Taiwan in the late 1940’s owing to the civil war in China. So in Tainwan parlance, you’re most likely a “mainlander”
For those on the board that are not overly familiar, in Taiwan, there are the “mountain people or aborigines” of Polynesian descent that speak a completely separate language, Taiwanese from Fujian Province who have been in Taiwan for several centuries and usually have no kin ties back to Fujian and speak “meinanhua”, Kejia or Hakka’s with a similar history to the Taiwanese, and then the mainlanders that fled China’s civil war in the 1940’s and speak their own local mainland dialects and/or Mandarin. Again, I’m talking about these terms as generally used in Taiwan. Mainlander does not refer to the Taiwan/Mainland China split/animosity. In very round numbers, Taiwanese make up about 75% of the population, Kejia maybe 5%, mountain people less than 1% and the mainlanders 15%.
Are you familiar with the 2-28 Incident? Google is your friend. “A police incident involving a cigarette vendor in Taipei on February 28, 1947 exploded into riots and short-lived rebellions around the island. As a result, thousands of Taiwanese–especially intellectuals and other leading members of society—were arrested, imprisoned, and executed. The government declared martial law, which was not lifted until 1987.” The episode is known as the February 28 Incident or “2-28” in Chinese A City of Sadness by Hou Pei-tsun was the first real coverage in the Taiwan media about the incident, although all Taiwanese knew it well and those old enough saw it with their own eyes. My Taiwanese “mother” saw the teachers in her elementary school lined up and shot. http://icg.harvard.edu/~lac49/handouts/Films/A_City_of_Sadness.pdf
A story in the Taipei Times on the anniversary this year http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/archives/2002/02/28/0000125767
At least through the 1980’s Taiwanese kids speaking Taiwanese language in elementary school (we’re talking first graders here), were fined, beaten and publicly humiliated in the classroom by teachers and Mandarin speaking classmates. Talk to any Taiwanese over the age of 40, maybe only the age of 30 as I’m not sure when this policy ended, they all know it and many harbor some serious resentment against the Mainlanders because of this. Now, sometime in the past decade or so, this policy has changed to a multilingual one in school, which is a great improvement.
Let’s not get into the mountain people/aboriginals, except to say that while it isn’t a contest, they have been treated on a par with American Indians. Life expectancy, education, prejudice, standard of living, health care, etc, you name it and they lag in every category. Don’t even talk about the percentage of mountain people girls (many in their early teens) forced into sex slavery in Taiwan, or the percentage of prostitutes that are mountain people. The mountain people are a separate race.
To be clear, I did not personally call you a “banana” but the post could be taken that way. Let me clarify, it must especially sting when you get called a “banana” by your Han “brothers”. Oh the irony of you playing the poor, downtrodden minority and a Chinese in Taiwan says you’re yellow in the outside but white on the inside. That really must sting when you encounter that.
Since the subject is irony, there is a significant segment of the Taiwanese that have the same stereotype of a Taiwanese woman “marrying up” into a Mainland family. Plenty that won’t let their daughters date much less marry a Mainlander or vice versa.
Fiesty, you up for refuting any of these facts about racism in a place where you have visited, have family and claimed you wanted to immigrate to if you could?
You’ll notice that this is called the BBQ pit. Indeed, you did, having used profanity in a similar fashion yourself. Or was that just because the whitey’s started it? If you wish to complain about the use of profanity in a thread, this is not the place.
Of course, there I was being facetious (although you’ll most likely use the “whitey” comment as “proof” of some vaunted idea of yours as to the barbaric nature of white people; I digress). Instead, let me ask you: WHY did you use profanity? If it degrades credibility, as what you said would imply after I called you “feistyfuckhead,” why do you use it yourself? Regardless of the topic of discussion at hand, to dismiss people for using profanity while doing so yourself is tantamount to shooting yourself in the foot. That said…
You speak with pride of your willingness to shoot somebody. How are we supposed to take seriously someone with so little regard for the magnitude of using a firearm on somebody?
More to the point…
[QUOTE]
**Hey dumbass **
[QUOTE]
[quote]
You’re a fucking moron.
[quote]
It’s apparently a nice bit of hypocrisy on your part, especially considering that hypocrisy is one of the things you rail against here. If, for some reason, my confusion as to why my use of profanity warrants dismissal from you while use on your part is acceptable was a result of taking something “out of context” or a “distortion” of what you “actually” said, please explain to me why.
On that note, WHY have Monty and China Guy among others been using “straw men” arguments and the like? Please be explicit as to why you deign not to respond to them in detail. What warrants apparent outright dismissal? Educate me on procedure, enlightened one.
How, moreover, is anyone to fulfill your request for acceptable arguments when you dismiss them on the grounds that they are presented by white people whose motivations are suspect by default? It seems that you have given yourself the ability to dismiss both before and after: “You won’t say anything relevant… see? I told you so!”
I won’t debate the subject of race, here, as I have other priorities to address rather than to go hunting for figures, for example, so I will address what I am more familiar with. My concern is your incoherent presentation. In addition to your paranoia and accusations that we want to silence you because you’re not telling us what we want to hear, it is your presentation that’s shooting you in the foot.
Yeah, that home depot thread title inspired me. I thought “with the horse…” was more clever than “and the horse…”
But yeah, I enjoy how you say that Feisty’s in the green for acting like a complete asshole. You’re right, he is entitled to be a prick. I guess if I took issue with that it’s just because I am the racist here.
And posting strawmen in all capitals does not make them valid. I have at no time claimed that just because one group was bad, that exonerates another group.
I specifically noted an error of fact in your posts. You made the wholly indefensible claim that the Japanese learned their racism from Europeans. That statement is entirely false. You have now repeated your error claiming that their racial attitudes were taken from Europeans, yet those beliefs were inherent in Japanese society before any European ever made it to the shores of Japan. (Your claim that “The whole belief that they were “sons of the emperor” was also reminiscent of european royalty.” is most absurd, given that that sort of idea is almost completely foreign to European society–and all vestiges of it were long gone before Europeans made it to the Pacific.)
The Japanese did embark in imperialism only after the Europeans had subjected the Chinese, but the racism was there centuries earlier. (For that matter, no society coming into sudden strength has ever chosen to forego imperial aspirations, so it is probably more accurate to say that Japan became imperialistic because they no longer had to fear China than because they “learned” imperialism from the West–although, unlike the racism issue, that point could be debated.)
If you are going to post falsehoods, you will be challenged on them. (And when you respond with either one more red herring or strawman and fail to actually engage the facts, we will be treated once more to your hate-inspired ignorance.)
No. I do not need to make youi feel better by lying about my knowledge of actual events. At the time Kaufman accepted the manslaughter plea, thwarting the trial that should have taken place for Murder 2, I wrote the Michigan Supreme Court asking whether they were going to take action against him. I have apparently paid more attention to the case than you have, as I am aware (as you are apparently not), that Chin’s mother eventually returned to the U.S., dying last summer in Farmington or Farmington Hills.
Feisty, you should give fighter pilots lessons on evading incoming fire, the way you’ve dodged anything resembling a clear, logical argument headed in your direction. Yes, the forum of an online messageboards lets you choose which posters and what points in particular you wish to criticize. But if you’re too selective, it looks like you’re being outright cowardly in declining to debate the issue. That is what you want to do, right? Debate? I’d like to see you last five posts in Great Debates without going back to your claims that everyone is out to get you and hold you down.
I can’t speak for anybody else, but personally I’m discriminating against you on the grounds that you’re a close-minded, hypocritical, shit-stirring, weaselling person who is out to cause trouble. Note that the word Asian didn’t feature once in that sentence. Yes, I’m name-calling. Deal.
[sarcasm]Simple, dude. Any quote where someone takes the spirit of what FM says, and not the exact wording, is creating a “strawman”. Which of course is not worth responding to.[/sarcasm] :rolleyes: How convenient for him. Which leads us to…
This game is called “I’m oppressed and you can’t win”. It’s similar to the game my little sister plays where she’ll continually ask why I’m angry at her, apropos of nothing. Around about the hundredth repetition of “I’m not” my voice begins to creep up a few decibels, resulting immediately in “MUMMMMMMMM! Judi’s picking on me!”. Feisty’s method of argument reminds me of this. He’s quite happy to make up a set of rules: nobody’s allowed to name-call; every assertion must be backed up with reliable sources; all rebuttals must be addressed; all arguments must be listened to; and all those other things he seems to expect from everyone posting in this thread. But when it comes to his side of things, he’s quite happy to disregard every single one of these rules and dance around repeating the same old “The Nazis were the worst, you’re white so your argument doesn’t count, I win” bullshit, and the moment anybody implies he’s trolling or has the potential to be banned he climbs back on the cross and starts his self-aggrandising speech of how we’re all trying to keep the truth underground and we don’t want to hear what an assertive Asian man has to say.
Go ahead, Feisty. Believe what you want to believe. But if you’re here to persuade, you’ll need to learn how to debate. Personally, I know I can’t hold my own in a history-based, race-themed logical debate, that’s why I don’t post in GD. If you have something other than emotionally driven references to colonialism and a narrow pre-selected range of “relevant” points you’re actually willing to address, I can’t wait to see what it is.
Dark “I can’t STAND intolerance ;)” Judicator
I’ve just read this whole thread, and my brain is beginning to leak out of my ears.
Feisty Please, please just consider for the smallest of moments that not everyone here is out to get you. This SDMB community is one of the very few corners of the world where one can be somewhat certain that no one gives a shit what color/sexuality/faith/fetish you are. Look around a bit, you’ll see that. You’re accusing many of us (us meaning SDMB members) of truly being scum. It’s not true.
Yes, whites have most of the power in the United States, and (considering the power the US has in the world) the world. Yes, Europeans have done horrendous things throughout history (and so have many other races, no matter how much you beleive it’s not true, read the cites provided in this thread). Yes, there are a disportionate number of minorities is US prisons. And yes, some people in this thread have said some real shitty things about/to you- although given the heat of this discussion and the accusations you throw about, it’s to be expected. But do you really think that through all these posts in all these fora, that all these white racist posters have just hid their skeletons it really, really, well, until you came along?
While you are making some quite valid points, they are getting drowned out in your quest to call out the White Devil. As you’ll see on the SDMB, blanket generalizations just don’t cover well enough. You need to be able to show yourself as willing to compromise (even if you don’t, in fact, compromise) in order to have a healthy debate. Many of your points would be wonderful fodder for Great Debates, as long as you can keep your cool and avoid demonizing any one group of people wholly.
I don’t think you should be banned, and I don’t really think you will be, especially if you open up just slightly to the points made against you. You seem reasonably intelligent, although there are some obvious difference of opinions, and your debate skills are questionable. This board is great mental exercise and great entertainment, and you could fit in quite nicely. I hope you don’t get banned, but you need to make that happen.
Troy: I’m still waiting on a valid point from Feisty.
I was referring to the points in my third paragraph, which he has touched on.
Well, I was out of town, and I’m a few pages late, but I just wanted to post my opinion on this:
Feistymongol is a pathetic whining loser. He probably couldn’t get a date with his own mail-order bride.
That was pretty much all I had to say.
Of course!! I worship at the altar of Trent Lott… Now where did I put my white sheet, don’t want to be late for the cross-burning… :rolleyes:
Why is this still even going on? Feistymongol has made it clear how he feels, and folks have expressed their disagreement. It’s over. Us vs. Him is the way Feistymongol wants the world to work. You aren’t going to change his mind. If it makes you feel better to sputter and fume like this, fine, but to me it seems like a lot of effort for no payoff.
Feistymongol, I want you to know that I respect your wishes, and you have my permission to consider me your enemy. Thank you for your frankness and honesty. If we meet on the field of battle, may the best man win.
I’m not trying to be inflammatory–I’m genuinely curious: would you take the same position with a white person who took Feistymongol’s attitudes and aimed them at black people?
Would I, Doghouse? Yes, I think I would. I think Feistymongol has made an informed decision to hate. We can say “We think you’re wrong, Feisty, and here’s why…” in hopes of increasing the peace and all that, but if he rejects that, then it’s us against him - the compassionate, rational people against the haters of the world.
His goal is to stir shit, to spread distrust and anger and racial hatred, kinda like Charles Manson. Specifically, he wants you to fear Asians. He wants you to think, whenever you see an Asian walking down the street “Could that be Feistymongol, the violent criminal?” He wants you to avoid Asians in your daily life, thus further segregating society, making way for the real fun to start - his idea of real fun being racial violence. It’s the same thing that white racists do, which should not be surprising when you consider that they’re on the same team.
It may hurt your feelings when he accuses you of not caring about violence against Asians in America, when you know that all decent people do care about it and are revolted by it, but it’s just a tactical smokescreen. He’s the one cackling with glee over the Vincent Chin story, because it’s useful to him as propaganda.
The way we should fight this is by behaving all the more decently toward people, especially people who are different from us. This will go further toward winning out against the haters than playing point-counterpoint on a message board. Here’s a way white people can implement this strategy: When you see an Asian person, don’t hide from him or avoid him. Treat him as decently as you would anyone else. Now, if the Asian is Feistymongol, you’ll have to physically defend yourself - remember, he wants your fear, not your friendship - but what are the chances you’ll actually run into him? And anyway, the idea is that as we make more progress, the ranks of the haters will shrink, and there will be a lesser chance that you’ll end up getting assaulted by someone like Feistymongol.
But meanwhile, one has to respect one’s enemies in order not to underestimate them. So he can’t string a logical argument together. So he can’t be consistent from one post to the next. So what? That’s not what he wanted to do in the first place. He wanted to stir shit, and he accomplished that. Look at all the hatred he’s fomented. Seven pages worth. That’s a man who knows what he wants and knows how to get it.