Is this article racist?

[Tars_Tarkas]

i got into an argument on another cite over whether this article is racist or not, and i want to hear what the people here think.

Sister can you lend an ear by Julie Oh.

I am of the opinion that it is racist and seperatist, part of the dividing of America into Us and Them groups that solves none of the real problems. Plus she seems to dismiss candidly footbinding and dismisses other things committed by asian males, but drags out crimes committed by white males from over a hundred years ago. She seems to want Asian women to fight for equality, accept when that equality is the right to date outside their race, then they are traitors. I think the article was ment to be a plea for asian women to not abandon asian men out of stereotypes but was ruined with all the hate rhetoric.

Or am i reading this totally wrong?

[China_Guy]

Her quote that kinds sums up the entire arguement for me goes like this:

I recently heard an Asian male say that activist Asian women who date or marry white men are not helping the cause. Many Asian females involved in interracial relationships will argue that who they date is a personal matter, and that it does not take away from their contribution to the community. I disagree.

The minute someone starts saying who you should or should not date along racial, ethnic, gender lines is offensively racist. It is also quite personal as my wife is Chinese, and the implication being that my wife is a whore and/or I’m a domineering loser. Neither of which happen to be remotely true.

She may even have some valid points in that rant about gender relationships and Asian men, but to say the only way to combat racism is for Asians to exclusively date/marry/breed with other Asians completely negates any other message. (Okay, I am inferring the breeding part.)

[kgriffey79]

How is “me so horny” racist? It’s an accurate depiction of what happened during the Vietnam War. Have you ever been to a country in southeast Asia? Well, I’ll tell ya, that’s nothing compared to the real behavior of Asian women to White males.

[Monty]

kg: I’ll answer that stunningly ignorant comment with this:

It’s racist because it portrays, as you just did, an entire group based on the actions of a few.

[kgriffey79]

*Originally posted by Monty *
**kg: I’ll answer that stunningly ignorant comment with this:

It’s racist because it portrays, as you just did, an entire group based on the actions of a few. **

Did you even read what I wrote? Or did you assume what I meant? Did I ever say that all Asian females are whores? No I didn’t. There is nothing wrong with including the “me so horny” line in FMJ. Absolutely nothing. It is truth. That is what happens. Go to Pattaya, Thailand and find out for yourself. I never ever said anything about all Asian women. I just said that, in SE Asian countries, that is what any white male will encounter period. And that was what the movie was showing.

[Monty]

Out of idle curiosity, I checked your proile, kg. It says you’re 16 years old. I’ve been to Korea, Japan, Singapore, Philippines, Thailand, and a few other countries in Asia–all after reaching my adult years.

Let me relate a story about Person A & Person B to you. Pay attention 'cause it might do you some good.

[ul]Person A: Hey, B! How’re you doing?
Person B: Hiya, A! Fine, just fine. By the way, I didn’t see you in church last week. Everything okay?
Person A: Oh, yeah. I just got tired of the church. Most of the folks there, not you of course, were pretty bad.
Person B: Really? Didn’t you just join our church not so long ago?
Person A: Yep. I got tired of the one I attened before that. Folks there were kind of bad, too. Pretty unwelcoming. And the place I attended before that one wasn’t much too friendly either.
Person B: Ever think it might not be the church?[/ul]

So, kg: Ever think it might not be the church?

On preview I see the snide comment of yours:

Did you even read what I wrote?

Sure did. You clearly made the behaviour out to be that of the entire group. That’s bigotry. Go fetch a dictionary to see what that word means when used by us adults.

Or did you assume what I meant?

Didn’t have to assume jack, young’un. You clearly said “the real behavior of Asian women to White males.”

Did I ever say that all Asian females are whores?

And exaclty where the dickens did I say you said “whore?” Retract that lie now.

No I didn’t.

Nor did I say you did.

There is nothing wrong with including the “me so horny” line in FMJ. Absolutely nothing. It is truth. That is what happens.

As I said, there is something wrong with what you said. That’s because it’s stereotyping. Go fetch that dictionary referred to above for the definition of that word, also.

Go to Pattaya, Thailand and find out for yourself.

Been there more than once. I’ve managed to see that there are plenty of people (the majority of the city, actually) who aren’t involved in treating White males in any particular manner.

I never ever said anything about all Asian women.

In polite society, this is what’s referred to as a lie. You said “real behavior of Asian women to White males.” Did you say “some Asian women?” Did you say “a few Asian women?” NO! You said “Asian women.” Now, folks who are familiar with the intricacies of the English language are aware that such a construction means the entirety of the group presented (Asian women).

I just said that, in SE Asian countries, that is what any white male will encounter period.

And that’s still not all Asian women’s behaviour towards all White males.

And that was what the movie was showing.

Still doesn’t excuse your racist, sterotypical, stunningly ignorant, and incorrect comments.

[errata]

I don’t agree with her but I don’t think she’s really racist though.

I think she’s merely rationalizing her own innate preferences. She said if asians weren’t facing oppression then it would be just fine to date who you want. She doesn’t criticize white men for dating Asian women, she’s trying to convince asian women to give asian men a fair shake. Apparently there is a phonomenon of asian feminists prefering white men that she is addressing.

Ultimately though, I see intermarriage (and dating) as one of the best ways to overcome racism. I don’t see how you could see someone for a significant length of time and still consider them a stereotype.

I think she’s kind of a whiner. She’s more worried about appearing hypocritical than explaining what if any damage interacial dating can cause.

[kgriffey79]

Wow, Monty! I’m sorry I haven’t updated my profile in quite a while now. I’m actually 17 and will be 18 in a month and two days.

Thank you so much for educated me Monty. A person of your age and wisdom is so hard to come by. You have certainly helped me out. You taught me the meaning of the word bigotry. And thank you for introducing me to “polite” society.

Thank you for saving me. I don’t know how I would enter “adulthood” without your guidance. I would have gone on with my mysogonistic and racist attitudes because I was such a terrible person. Thank you for saving me from the fires of hell. You are my savior.

[you_with_the_face]

In my experience, when members of a racial/ethnic minorty rail against the tide of interracial relationships within their race they are not protesting the actual relationships but rather the motivation (either real or imagined) behind the relationships. But even when love is cited as the motivation, they often chose not to accept that.

I’m not Asian so I’m not aware of how it is to be in that group, but I do empathize with some points the author makes. If an Asian woman’s motivation for being with a white man is because he represents things that an Asian man can not, then I could see why that would be an issue. Black people have been battling the same kind of thing, too. Black men-white women relationships are scrutinized by other blacks in part because for decades the white standard of beauty has dominated the media, subliminally telling men that light is right and dark is ugly. So when a significant chunk of the male population gravitates away from that female population, red flags go up. And understandably so, IMO. The Asian perspective may be similar.

But regardless, it’s wrong to condemn IRs out of hand. One can not know what goes on in another person’s heart and so it is wrong to invalidate normal human feelings by portraying the whole thing as “us vs them”. Sometimes people just need to admit that folks are going to shack up with whomever they want to, and it’s not necessarily a good or bad thing. It just is.

[Zoe]

From the article:

If we lived in a perfect world where no one group had power over another, no one would have the right to criticize another’s dating choice.

As much as I hate busy-bodies who feel that should tell me how wrong I am in my choices, I guess that in the U.S. she does have the right to criticize anything she chooses. But in so doing, she has made racist comments.

I hate stereotypes and generalizations!

[Monty]

You know, kg, your snide comments do you no favours whatsoever. They reflect very badly on you.

That being said, what I was obviously taking issue to was your sweeping generalizations as you stated them. Perhaps you didn’t mean to apply that generalization to the entire group; however, your wording certainly shows that intent. If that’s not your intent, word it differently–along the lines of “some folks do” or the like.

But from your postings in this thread, especially your smart-aleck last one, I tend to think that I’m right about your stereotyping folks.

[RexDart]

First of all: monty get off kg’s tail on this one. He merely asserted that such things do happen. That’s not even close to the same thing as saying that everyone participates. You overreacted. If I go to New York and encounter prostitutes, then recount that experience here on SDMB, do I really have to include a frickin’ proviso that “of course those women represented a minority of New York’s total female population”? C’mon, lighten up a bit. It may very well be a true statement, that such behaviour is encountered there. As that’s all he asserted, I don’t see the problem.

As for the article, methinks this lady and feistymongol would get along fine. Especialy since she seems so willing to make excuses for the behaviour of people like him.

This quote is telling:

I have heard several progressivist Asian women say they have a problem being described by Asian men as “our women” because it connotates ownership. This mentality has roots in white feminist theory. I have probed many Asian men on their usage of the term “our,” and their explanation is that “our” is used as a term to express kinship, and not ownership.

She is clearly identifying race as a factor for making serious life decisions (such as whom to marry/date/etc), on the basis of some allegedly shared “kinship.” Go ask a Vietnamese person, a Korean person, a Japanese person, and a Chinese person how much they think they share a kinship, I think you’ll find the Asian “race” is an illusion.

And she’s hungup on the perceived “emasculation” of Asian men, nevermind that the majority of stereotypes of Asian men is that they’re a) brilliant, b) successful, c) studious, d) dedicated. Those are powerful associations, those characteristics are associated with strength and control. I hardly think there’s such racism against Asians as demands some sort of racial identity movement among them akin to the people over at stormfront.org. Lest we forget, mixed dating relationships are topica numero uno over there, with much the same attitude taken as this woman takes.

And finally, I have a little distaste for someone who’s willing to sell out their gender for their race. Gender is largely a shared experience, and I feel kin to all men on this planet in a way that race can’t put barriers into.

Well, at least she didn’t start claiming that I shouldn’t be allowed to watch Jackie Chan movies because of negative stereotypes…if some woman starts attacking martial arts cinema, she better be ready to fight it out, because I ain’t givin’ that up!

[SLASH]

*Originally posted by China Guy *
**She may even have some valid points in that rant about gender relationships and Asian men, but to say the only way to combat racism is for Asians to exclusively date/marry/breed with other Asians completely negates any other message. (Okay, I am inferring the breeding part.) **

He summed it up rather well.

[Monty]

Drop it yourself, Rex. I’ve yet to see you say “New York Women are prostitutes.” kg did assert that the entirety of Asian women act in a certain manner.

[SLASH]

Maybe he’s saying just the women that the soldiers encountered? Either way, I doubt every woman actually did that.

[kgriffey79]

My snide comments do me no good? Look at your second post. You have your share of snide comments. Now granted, I started it, but you are the adult here, right? So I guess that justifies them. Anyway, look, as you probably know because you have been to SE Asia, prostitution is a very different concept. It is accepted and embraced. When the US marines come in to town, port cities boom. Girls from the country come into towns to make money. Things quiet down after the marines leave. Now not all of the prostitutes are of the ‘me so horny’ kind, but a great deal are. And what do you mean that people in Thailand didn’t treat white males in any particular way? Come on now. How politically correct are you trying to be? People jump all over you(which probably has nothign to do with the SE asia, its just the 3rd world). People would yell at you “hey man, hey dude”. Spitting out the english they get from movies to sell you something. The Sope men that chase you and give you those cards (I don’t know how to spell Sope, or if you know what one it). Or the barmaidens on Beach Road that scream at you when you walk by(you say you’ve been to pattaya, im talkin about beach road before walking street, where the entire side of the street is just bars). That’s just the way it is.
If there were a ‘me so horny’ attitude, it would have nothign to do with being Asian racially (since this is what the post is about before it got sidetracked). I know plenty of Asian people and not a single one is like that (well except for one, but her daddy probly touched her ). Anyway, the point is, well shit, what is the point.
Racism is defined as The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others. by dictinary.com But I dont really like that definition because it makes me a racist. I mean shit, I think Asian people are generally smarter than white folks. And black people are more athletic. It’s just the way it is. But who really cares? Jealousy is the cause of prejuicide, we should focus on ourself and our own abilities.

[occ]

The article has little of value in it. Everyone’s read countless uninformed-college-activist papers with the same content. She says that one reason she dates Asian men is for “political reasons” (uh, I bet your boyfriend would love hearing that he was chosen to advance your political agenda). She paints mild slights (lyrics in a Bloodhound Gang song? Sheesh.) as “oppression”. She uses awkward, elitist-intellectual phrasing like “The emasculated demonized Asian man is but the flip side to the same racist coin that portrays Asian women as helpless exotic sexually adroit lotus blossums.”. She refers to “fighting the system”. She repeatedly states that whites have “privileges and power over Asians” (er…uh…I guess I was unaware that I posessed such power. Can I use it to have sex with these exotic sexually adroit lotus blossoms?). She states that the “phenomenon” of Asian-Female / White-Male couplings “supports an oppressive system that places white men above Asian men.” (uh, how, exactly? I love non-sequiters.). She refers to chastity belts, the use of which was largely a tittilating myth. She throws out the tired feminist rhetoric that the oppressive male culture forces women to wear sexually alluring outfits and accessories. I’m only about halfway down, and most every line is either a tired cliche, a logical error, or a statement that belies an ignorance of history.

Crappy article. Dubious premise. Preaching to the choir.

Racist? Ehh, who knows. It’s a stupid term, and little more than name-calling in this day and age.

[erislover]

I certainly didn’t infer an “all” quantification in his post. YMMV.

The article clearly wants us to make decisions based on race. Can’t get much more racist than that.

[Monty]

*Originally posted by kgriffey79 *
My snide comments do me no good? Look at your second post. You have your share of snide comments. Now granted, I started it, but you are the adult here, right? So I guess that justifies them.

Actually, mine wasn’t a snide comment. You prove that you had no justification.

Anyway, look, as you probably know because you have been to SE Asia, prostitution is a very different concept. It is accepted and embraced.

Yes, I’ve been there. I also know that it’s not accepted and embraced by the population as a necessity. Some parts of the society accept it and those are the folks who are exploiting the prostitutes.

When the US marines come in to town, port cities boom. Girls from the country come into towns to make money. Things quiet down after the marines leave.

Thanks for implying that the Marines are whoremongers. Yes, some Servicemembers frequent prostitutes and that still, in the world of Logic & Reality, doesn’t mean that all Servicemembers do. At any rate, there are other ways to make money off of the folks arriving via ship.

Now not all of the prostitutes are of the ‘me so horny’ kind, but a great deal are.

I’m about fed up with you hoisting this canard. That’s not what I was talking about when I made the comment I made to you. I was making the comment about, and this time I’ll put it in quotes, italics, and even bold it for you so just maybe this time you’ll realize what bigoted comment of yours I’m talking about:

Well, I’ll tell ya, that’s nothing compared to the real behavior of Asian women to White males.

And what do you mean that people in Thailand didn’t treat white males in any particular way? Come on now.

You really should try reading for comprehension on occasion. Here’s your first reading comprension test: Did I say that “people in Thailand didn’t treat white males in any particular way” or did I actually say “I’ve managed to see that there are plenty of people (the majority of the city, actually) who aren’t involved in treating White males in any particular manner.” There is a world of difference in what you pretend I say and what I actually did say.

How politically correct are you trying to be?

Not at all. What I’m trying to do is point out to you your lies about what you say I said.

People jump all over you(which probably has nothign to do with the SE asia, its just the 3rd world). People would yell at you “hey man, hey dude”. Spitting out the english they get from movies to sell you something. The Sope men that chase you and give you those cards (I don’t know how to spell Sope, or if you know what one it). Or the barmaidens on Beach Road that scream at you when you walk by(you say you’ve been to pattaya, im talkin about beach road before walking street, where the entire side of the street is just bars). That’s just the way it is.
If there were a ‘me so horny’ attitude, it would have nothign to do with being Asian racially (since this is what the post is about before it got sidetracked). I know plenty of Asian people and not a single one is like that (well except for one, but her daddy probly touched her ). Anyway, the point is, well shit, what is the point.

Good question: what is your point? Do you actually have one?

Look, the whore houses are populated by whores. Who would’ve thought? The majority of Pattaya Beach is not a whorehouse. As I’ve said, I’ve been there and I even got to see some of the city and some of the countryside.

Racism is defined as The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others. by dictinary.com But I dont really like that definition because it makes me a racist.

Just because you don’t like the fact that you’re a racist doesn’t make you not a racist. If you don’t want to be a racist, cease being one.

I mean shit, I think Asian people are generally smarter than white folks.

Care to provide an honest citation for this absurd comment?

And black people are more athletic.

Or this one?

It’s just the way it is.

Really? Prove it.

But who really cares?

Why, those of us who aren’t impressed by falsehoods and ignorance, of course.

Jealousy is the cause of prejuicide, we should focus on ourself and our own abilities.

Silly me, I always thought ignorance was the cause of prejudice.

Rex: Still think I’m overreacting?

[Tars_Tarkas]

I’m going to side with Monty on this catfight, despite the fact that he has the same nickname as a crazy stalker ex-girlfriend and i usually avoid him (no offense). Especially with that last ejaculation. kgriffey79, have you been to Asia?

Thanks to all of you for your input.