Yes, IME. My oldest daughter is a freshman in college, and received extensive advice from her guidance counselors, including dreams, reaches & safety schools. My second daughter is a junior in high school and has recently this process with the counselors. Suburban public high school BTW.
For a good laugh on the subject, check out post 64611 in the Baker’s Dozen thread here: https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=573445&page=1293
It varies by institution. There are lots of public schools where there’s one counselor for 500 kids (that’s what we have), which is insane. It’s even more insane than it looks because counselor duties have expanded significantly over the years–for example, as standardized tests explode, they end up as testing coordinators. And everything requires more paperwork every year, much of which MUST be completed by a counselor. So in lots of schools, counselors just don’t have time.
In other cases, even where they do have time, they don’t have expertise. College admissions is one of those fields that requires being an expert on an esoteric and rapidly changing body of knowledge. You can’t learn in in college, but rather as you go. And you stay current mostly by staying active–having a network of people you talk to so you know which schools offer good aid, what trends in admissions are, etc. And there’s a LOT of knowing people, too.
So the counselors at most schools try, but it’s not always good and there’s never enough of it.
Because of this, there’s been an explosion in private college admissions counseling, like in the current scandal. Hiring a private admissions counselor is absolutely normal in upper-middle class/professional circles now, and it’s becoming increasingly common in middle class circles as well. These people charge $85-$200 an hour (or $2-20K for a “package”). This is separate from private test prep, though it may be through the same person. Furthermore, good college counseling is a perk a lot of expensive private schools offer: it’s a big part of their advertising. Even then, a lot of wealthy parents go with a professional.
It really does take a lot of knowledge to find a kid a school that 1) Matches their personal and professional goals 2) will take them 3) will be affordable. It has to be personalized because, for example, a kid with a household income of $100,000 might well find the State Flagship program to be the most affordable, best option: a kid with a household income of $75,000 and similar stats might be best off with in the honors program of a regional public school; and the kid with the same stats and a household income of $10k might find both those totally unaffordable but a more elite LAC might be free. And Kid A might be able to get into THAT school and rejected from THIS one when Kid B would get into THAT school but be rejected from THIS school. You can’t just put grades and test scores into a computer and it spits out a list.
I work at a public magnet where most of our kids are first generation college students (many are first-generation high school students). We strive to provide the same sort of advising elite private counselors provide. It’s a TON of work. We’ve been really successful, but only because we’ve really made it the focus of our whole program and we have several individuals willing to donate a lot of their time. When other schools don’t do what we do, it’s not that they are lazy.
OK, in that case, thank you for your service. People usually say that to those in the military but it sounds like you deserve it as well. Getting kids, particularly first-generation college students, into college is a great thing to be doing. You can really change lives.
Manda JO, your posts in this thread have been outstanding and incredibly illuminating. Thank you.
Our sons have all gone to the same very good suburban public high school and have each gotten pretty useful college counseling, including guidance in figuring out dream, reach and safety schools.
When I was in high school there was one counselor per 500 kids, assuming you only counted the senior class. I worked in the College Office as a student volunteer so I was up on this.
They only allowed 3 applications per student, plus the generic application for CCNY. I did one safety school, one school I had high confidence in, and one stretch school. I think most people did something similar.
Perhaps this problem could be reduced if there was some sort of a limit on applications countrywide. Acceptance rates would increase, there could be more time spent vetting colleges and students, and students might get a bit less frantic.
I suppose the colleges would hate higher acceptance rates.
What do you think? It would be hard to implement, I understand.
other students are suing because they were not told the admission process was rigged
quid pro quo contributions are not legal. And if you make admission for dollars too obvious, the school would likely lose more money from alumni giving than they would make up in money for admissions.
There are smart rich kids. When I was at MIT there was a du Pont and a Thai princess there - neither of whom had any problem with the work. There was also a du Pont athletic facility, but from long before she got there.
cases like what’s mentioned above are why CA is an open enrollment state …
as expected the Hallmark channel axed Loughlin and Sephora canned her daughter
I think that would hurt the neediest kids the worst. The reason kids apply to 20 schools is that it’s quite possible to apply to be rejected by 19 and get a full-ride to the one you get in. This isn’t true for all kids, but if you really, really need financial aid and you’re kind of an edge case, the only way for it to work is shotgun style. I don’t know how I’d fix the current system, but drastically limiting applications isn’t it. How does a kid whose never even been out of state pick three schools to apply to?
As I’ve mentioned elsewhere, most “development cases” are exceptionally well qualified. But lots of exceptionally well qualified kids get rejected. It’s not “take my idiot son” money, it’s “take my impressively accomplished student over other impressively accomplished students”.
Thanks to both of you for your kind words. I am pretty deep in this world!
(For example, the last two hours have been the whirlwind of MIT decisions being released)
that sort of stinks as garage series mysteries was one of their better movie series …
She’s also lost TRESsemmé and Estee Lauder brands Too Faced and Smashbox Beauty. Plenty of sponsorship deals still out there, though, including Amazon, Marc Jacobs, Dolce & Gabbana and Clinique. Amazing how being the child of someone semi-famous can be leveraged to bring in big money for very little effort.
Very little effort seems to be the theme here.
As “comfort food” mysteries go, they were fairly satisfying. If you’re looking for a similar fix, try the Alison Sweeney series, the one were she’s a librarian and the one that just started up where she’s a podcaster. (until we find out she’s running a human trafficking ring shipping Irish clog dancers to bars and nightclubs throughout the Midwest :eek:)
Lol Get Macy
While we’re all taking a certain pleasure from Lori Laughlin being hung out to dry, remember that Felicity Huffman just wrapped production on an indie film that’s critical to Amy Jo Johnson’s attempt to shift from over-the-hill Power Ranger to serious director. AFAICT the film hasn’t found a distributor yet, and not being able to get the film out could derail Johnson’s career. That’s some serious collateral damage.
I’ve been wondering how students who got into college via bribes and/or cheating fare academically. After all, someone with a low GPA and an unimpressive SAT score is likely entering college at a disadvantage. Turns out that may be the deciding factor in whether those students are allowed to continue at that school or get kicked out.
That seems fair, unless, of course, the student’s acceptable grades are due to cheating on tests and/or hiring someone to write their essays. One reason this whole debacle angers me is that I can’t imagine how these students contribute to the quality of education for other students. Do they make constructive contributions to discussions? Ask relevant questions in class? Carry their own weight on team projects?
Good point, and I hope Huffman is aware of how her actions affect others. Same for Loughlin, whose Hallmark series “Garage Sale Mysteries” has been canceled, undoubtedly putting others out of work. And the same for the less famous parents involved. Younger children in all those families, kids who aren’t yet college age, suffer by association. If one of those younger kids DOES make it into college on his or her own merit, who’ll believe it?
I imagine there are all sorts of people suffering because of this. The effects of unethical behavior may not always be foreseen, but it makes them no less painful and the culprits no less culpable.