Female Violence---Self-Defense or Psychopathy?

Great Debates
1

Or something in between of course.

I am not sure this post would interest people, but it is something I have come across. Although most folks tend to assume domestic violence is a male onto female sorta thing, there is a number of research articles which suggests this is not true (too many to list offhand, though if interested in looking it up, I particularly recommend the work of S. Steinmetz, M. Straus, P. Pearson and R. Gelles, though there are others). A number of these studies find that a.) not only that women commit about as many incidences of domestic violence as men, but also b.) when asked they usually cite “anger” or “control” as reasons, not “self-defense”. It is suggested that men simply do not report these incidents, or are not taken seriously by law enforcement or medical personelle.

this is of course, a controversial issue in psychology, and there are plenty of other researchers which vehemently disagree (Dobasch and Dobasch for one). Although it is generally acknowledged that, yes women do engage in as many incidents, it is still suggested that these are responses to male aggression or domination. Some of these researches seem to imply that, to them, it is OK for women to hit men since they have been dominated by men for millenia, and they are less likely to do serious damage (although this point is also contested…you get the idea).

Anyway, I am not sure this will be an interesting post, but I am curious to see people’s general reactions to this.

1.)Do you believe women hit as often as men?

2.)Do you believe women hit only in self-defense

3.)If you agree with the researchers that women hit in anger, do you think this is OK?

4.) What are men’s reactions to being hit (any anecdotes?)

5.) Do you believe this is a serious issue?

6.) When women murder husbands/boyfriends, how should this be treated?

7.) Would you believe a woman who claimed self-defense though there was no evidence of her being battered?

8.) Where do you feel that female child abusers, child killers fit into this (as an aside, there is also research to suggest women make up 80% of those who abuse/kill infants)

I am honestly trying to make sense of much of this myself for the moment and would appreciate any opinions.

2

Yes, if not more. I’m sure it’s more (we get away with it more easily).

No

Not any more OK than for a man to hit a woman

They don’t like it. I never hit my SO, but I threw my keys at him once, and I will never do that again. I think the reaction may be a combination of feeling insulted, having their masculinity undermined, feeling angry, feeling embarrassed, etc. Any one of these or none, for all I’ve been inside a man’s brain.

Hard to say. I would need more data, I guess. But it could very easily be. It is serious in that people shouldn’t be hitting each other, man or woman. As far as a national problem, who knows?

The same as when a man murders a woman.

It would depend upon the woman (some are more credible than others). I would depend upon how well I knew the woman. I would depend upon how well I knew the man.

I would think that if a woman has violent tendencies toward anyone, she would be more likely to be a child abuser/killer than one who does not. There are always exceptions to the rule, of course, but I don’t think violence restricts itself to a certain group of people (always).

3

avalongod wrote:

Yeah, but it doesn’t count, 'cause they hit like a girl. :wink:

4

Yes, but that they tend to do less physical harm. Generally speaking most women lack the upper body strength possessed by less men.

Absolutely not. Women are just as capable of malicious violence as men.

Again, absolutely not. There is no excuse for physical violence. Women should be held just as accountable as men.

Two anecdotes:

When my mother was a little girl, she spent some time with her aunt and uncle. One day, while playing in the hayloft of the barn, she saw the two come in, have an argument, and then saw her aunt stab her uncle in the buttocks with a pitchfork. Her cousin said “oh, that’s just my mom and dad. My mom loves my dad, but something she does stuff like that.” The uncle, as he usually did, suffered silently.

When I was dating a man just a couple of years younger than me, I got in a very bad habit of punching his arm when I got annoyed with him. My boyfriend was a walking doormat. We had only been dating for a few weeks, and the thrill of the sex was wearing off, and I was starting to get annoyed with his neediness and inability to stand up to me. What started off as me giving him a playful sock became harder and harder until he visibly flinched. He pointed this out to me, and I embarrassed almost to the point of humiliation. I stopped immediately, and within a week ended up breaking up with him partly because I felt trapped by his neediness and partly because I didn’t like who I was when I was around him. His reaction to my hitting his arm was pain, emotional upset, and more neediness.

Any violence of this sort is a serious issue. I think the question is “how large of an issue is this?”. Incidence of female-to-male violence is almost certainly underreported. More investigation is needed.

As a criminal matter subject to full prosecution.

Probably not, but a great deal would depend on her demeanor, the opportunities for evidence to have been gathered previously, her possible motivation for lying.

Somewhere in the same part of the spectrum. A woman who abuses her boyfriend probably isn’t going to curb her violent tendencies when it comes to children. However, I don’t believe that the majority of female child-abusers are also husband-abusers. The balance of power usually falls along the lines of physical strength when it comes to physical violence.

. . . .

Obviously, neither partner violence or child abuse should be tolerated. Men who are abused face nearly all the same problems that women do with the added complication of societal prejudices that minimize, scoff, or ridicule the idea that harm has been done to them. That’s a shame. I’d think we’d know all too well by now just how disposed human beings are to hurting one another.

5

Wow, not much debate so far.

Given the degree to which people in psychology argue over this issues, I thought there would be folks on the “self-defense” side.

for myself, I am similar in my opinions to the other posters, but I kinda wanted to make sure I wasn’t misreading the situation or having some sort of “male” bias, so I appreciate the input.

:slight_smile:

6

Let me throw in one last question:

Do you think that the “average” woman would be more approving of female to male violence than male to female violence? I am thinking of doing some research on this, but it might be good to know if I might be barking up the wrong tree.

7

One thing to consider: when people consider concepts in the absract, I think there is a tendency to use exaggerated gender schema. When we hear “Guy A hit Woman B”, I think that our mental image is usually closer to a hulking linebacker than an accountant, and the woman is slight and delicate. If you are useing these same exageratted gender schema when envisoning the situation the other way, it is hard to feel much sympathy for the male–what could little ole her do to him?

Of course, real people don’t look like this. If I actually think in terms or real people that I know, in many couples the balence of power in not so clear cut: off the top of my head: I am six inches taller than my boyfriend (he’s 4’11), my mom is in considerablly better shape than my dad, and so on and so forth. Probably more women go to gyms than men these days. More men seem to have “compter geek” builds than linebacker builds. I think any study dealing with assessing people’s attitudes towards female violence would need to do so with pictures to overcome this tendency to exaggerate gender charecteristics when thinking abstractly. I think such a study would find that what people feel strongest about is the obviously stonger person hitting someone obviously weaker, and the most comfortable in the situation where the “hitter” did not apear strong enough to do any real damge to the one hit. We don’t like bullies, we are tolerant towards bratty little siblings.

8

Sadly yes, and I think some of them do it without thinking of how they’d feel if the positions were reversed, which is probably also true of male abusers. My own grandmother was terribly abusive towards my grandpa, but the one or two times he tried to fend her off (not by hitting, simply by grasping her arm to avoid another blow), she raised absolute hell-- “How dare you!” and so on. I also had a friend who used to brag about how she could kick her husband’s ass (very twisted family she came from…), but again, the one time he forcibly yanked her off of him, she called me in tears and made me come over to look at the almost invisible mark he left on her.

No. Abusive behavior is not exclusive to men.

Absolutely not-- if it’s wrong for men, it’s wrong for women, period.

Well, to expand on the incidents I mentioned above: Grandpa was just a long-suffering man who for some reason never just up and left. Grandma wasn’t the type to come after him-- she wasn’t trying to kill him-- so I’m guessing he stayed out of a sense of obligation to her, even after the kids were grown and gone. I would guess that after 50 years or so he was just numb to it. In my friend’s husband’s case, I would say massively wounded pride and I know he eventually had at least one affair, and they’re now divorced.

Yes. Maybe women don’t kill with domestic violence as often as men do (and I have no idea if they do or not), but violence is violence.

Exactly the same as when men murder women.

It would depend on how well I knew her and what I knew of the situation. Consider that she could have been emotionally abused to the point where her SO’s “I’m going to kill you, you bitch” sounded like a genuine, serious threat, and she was truly afraid for her life. The reverse situation (male kills female) could also be true.

As far as infanticide goes, there are varying opinions out there about the role of post-partum depression, and I’m not sure what I think of them. In general, however, abuse is abuse and murder is murder, though my WAG would be that women, since they are often around kids more than men are, would be more likely to snap in a way that affects a child.

I think the average woman knows that it’s just as wrong for women to abuse men as it is for men to abuse women.

9

I think people in general are. If a woman on televison gets angry with a man she can slap him or throw a drink in his face. How often do you see a man on television throw a drink or slap a woman in the face without being considered the bad guy?

Marc

10

Hell, a woman on television can throw a drink in a guy’s face just because he’s trying to talk to her in a bar and he’s not good-looking enough for her.

11

1.)Do you believe women hit as often as men?
I don’t know. Of course they DO hit. If a woman hits a man, it doesn’t have the stigma attached to it that a man hitting a woman does. A woman hitting a man is often seen as a liberating and noble act. A man hitting a woman is a barbaric act. So acts of violence perpetrated by women could go unreported and unnoticed, most people assuming that it doesn’t happen, or is a freak occurence when it does. I would think that they hit at least as often, if not more, because they have less restraint imposed by society not to.
**2.)Do you believe women hit only in self-defense **
No. Just as men don’t always hit in passion, women don’t always hit in fear. It goes both ways. Some women are as ruled by emotions as men. For evidence, watch Jerry Springer. You’ll usually see women jumping up to claw at, kick, and hit the other members of the show. And the victim can be of either gender. Women are not all angels.
3.)If you agree with the researchers that women hit in anger, do you think this is OK?
No. It’s not ok ever to strike out in rage. For defense, for justice, not for the purposes of passion. Whether the striker is man or woman, it is wrong.
4.) What are men’s reactions to being hit (any anecdotes?)
Probably shock and confusion. Part of the role men are given is protector. When the one you are supposed to protect lashes out at you, what are you supposed to do? Some may automatically react with violence. Some may be upset, angered. It’s an unexpected situation, for all that it is likely to be very common. When we encounter things we are not trained for, we usually react with confusion, fear, and anger.
5.) Do you believe this is a serious issue?
Of course. Just because it’s a woman, does that make it all right? Women can hurt, maim, and kill. When a woman attacks, it’s usually with far greater brutality than men. A man enraged is often content just to beat to submission. Women, reacting to the role of ‘weakness’ given them by society (women are small, women are weak, men use our weakness against us, etc) and when they attack, usually go for the kill, attacking the eyes, throat, and groin. The damage can be just as serious, so the issue is just as serious.
6.) When women murder husbands/boyfriends, how should this be treated?
As murder. Murder it is and murder it shall be. If it’s in self-defense, then of course it’s not murder, it’s a killing. A significant difference.
7.) Would you believe a woman who claimed self-defense though there was no evidence of her being battered?
What if the man were threatening her and she felt it was serious? Domestic disturbance cases are very difficult to deal with. The claimants are both very heavily involved emotionally. The truth will be distorted, as both sides will feel they are right, are in the wounded. It’s nearly impossible to untangle the stories there. The man could have a history of battering her, but not recently enough for anything to show. It’s never clear cut. A good judge and/or jury will sort through it all and try to find the truth.
8.) Where do you feel that female child abusers, child killers fit into this (as an aside, there is also research to suggest women make up 80% of those who abuse/kill infants)
Abusing a child is never excusable.

12

Do women hit men, of course they do. Is there a study showing that women abuse men in domestic situations at the same rate as men, of course not. Even if there were I do not believe the numbers would measure up. The number of women imprisoned for violent offenses is so much lower than men. Most women inmates are in prison for non-violent offenses. The child abuse figures I would have to clarify; what type of child abuse, sexual, violent, neglect? I’m sure women commit all of these offenses but at a rate of 80% doesn’t fly with me. Let me see where you got that one from and if it is true then I would want to know the marital status and income level of the group surveyed. See lots of “buts” and “ifs” isn’t it?

Purely antedoctal…I have never hit a man just simply out of anger that I didn’t have a violent relationship with the man in the first place. However back when I was married I have hit or thrown things at my Xhusband. Mainly because there was a climate of violence in our marriage anyway. A climate that he began and perpetrated thoughout the marriage. Did I always hit him in self defense? Hell no! I never hit him in self defense, I always ducked and covered, at least covered my face. But on at least two occasions that I can remember I hit him first because we were arguing, he’d take a swing at my head, that was my que to shut up, and I’d lose my temper. Then I’d see red, tired of being controlled with the threat of violence, I’d lash out. I was always sorry because I was no match for him and always ended up getting hurt. Was I battered, not in the TV movie sense of the word I wasn’t. He didn’t beat me all the time. He didn’t beat me the way you see battered women on TV. But he did control me with violence. He broke off my tooth. He bruised me. I couldn’t shut my jaw tight for two weeks once. Did I ever need a doctors care, no. (Unless you count years of trouble with that broken tooth.) Did I ever have a black eye, hell no! I ducked and covered remember. I had lots of bruises on my arms but I wore long sleeves until they went away.

The point that I’m trying to make is when there is a climate of violence in a domestic situation it often becomes hard to tell who is the aggressor and who is the victim after awhile. But because men are generally larger, more muscular, and usually more agressive than women then I find it hard to believe that there will ever be a time when the statistics will show huge numbers of battered men. Now huge numbers of manipulated, duped, and emotionally battered men…that might be a study. I think when a women controls a man she tends to use manipulation and guile instead of violence.

Need2know

13

NeedstoKnow:

We meet again!

Actually with this post I am more curious to see other people’s responses (and thank you for yours) rather than debating them.

Obviously this is a HOTLY debated issue, and their are researchers that agree with you, and some that do not. Dobash, and Dobash, for instance, agree with you that the incidence of female violence is much lower than male violence in intimate relationships. The US Justice Dept. statistics say 15%-25% of domestic violence incidences are perpetrated by females, which is obviously lower than males, but still significant and interesting.

On the other side of the coin are a number of researchers that point to higher rates…

Steinmetz, 1997 (actually she is the feminist writer who got the “wife battering” literature going)…says about 50%.

Straus and Gelles (1977, 1980, 1986, 1993) say about 50% and that females are more likely to use weapons.

McNeely and Robinson-Simpson (1987): About 50%

As far as 80% of child abuse:

Crittendon and Craig, 1990
Overpeck et al, 1998. This one in New England Journal of Medicine.

The higher rate of child abuse/infanticide is less contested than the domestic violence debate (which as you might suspect is a war) and the figures seem a bit more firm.

women make up about 15% of all criminals, so you are correct in stating women are less violent overall. Women almost never target strangers for violence (armer robbery, etc.) When they do get violent it is usually toward intimates. As much male violence is toward strangers, it dose end up that intimate violence works out 50/50 even though women are generally less violent.

Also, just an interesting factoid: Women make up 15% of all serial killers (Keeney, & Heide, 1994).

Please note I am not debating this issue, trying to tell you or anyone else you are right/wrong, because this is a HOTLY contested issue right now. I just wanted to see people’s opinions from both sides of the issue.

Thank you warmly, for sharing your opinions and personal anecdote. I hope that you were able to safely get out of your violent situation.

:slight_smile:

14

One thing… if someone threatens you with death and even means it its not self defense to kill them because obviously you can leave and defend yourself if he attacks you. Otherwise theres no such thing as first strike defense.

15

I was asking about the child abuse issue because it does seem feasible to me that women would perhaps be statistically more prone to this type of behavior. Considering the fact that in most situations women are the primary care takers. Another completely antedoctal situation…I have a friend that is a pediatric nurse at MCV in Richmond. She works the PICU. She says that pretty much every kid that lands in there brain dead from being shaken or beaten it is always a boyfriend, never the dad or mother. No statistic of course, but recently in our area a man was arrested for shaking and beating a four year old this way.

Oh yeah, and what do you think of these studies Avalon? When we are saying that women instigate domestic incidents are we talking about say…police reports or something of that nature. What do you think of these studies that show women to be violent 50% of the time? Are they valid?

Need2know

16

1.)Do you believe women hit as often as men? No idea. I definitely know more women who hit as joking/casual contact than men who do same. Just as women are far more agressive at strip shows than men seem to be. Less pressure and awareness that it COULD be bad, and a feeling that since ‘little ol’ me’ can’t possibly cause REAL harm, it is okay to push the envelope. I know one male stripper who was always getting followed by crazy women, and felt a lot of pressure even from the other strippers NOT to report it, for fear of being laughed at - he’s a MAN, he should either like it or be able to HANDLE it himself, and the women didn’t stop because, COME ON, they’re JUST women. Same for violence - women don’t think they’re being as bad as they are, just because they are WOMEN, and everyone knows we aren’t as strong or powerful or anything. (bad assumptions)

2.)Do you believe women hit only in self-defense? No. Any “only” statement is bound to be wrong. Primarily? Not sure - anger is more likely. Self-defense is also possible.

3.)If you agree with the researchers that women hit in anger, do you think this is OK? Quoting myself when speaking to my then 2-yr-old son, “We use words to express our feelings, NOT hands.” If I had a daughter, I’d tell her the same. Physical expression of feelings onto someone else is not very effective in the long run, and not only morally wrong, it usually makes things worse.

4.) What are men’s reactions to being hit (any anecdotes?) Lessee - I only punched two guys. One, I punched in the eye because he had hidden my barbie dolls and wouldn’t tell me where (I was pissed, and also 4 or 5 years old). He was shocked, but from there on took me seriously (I wasn’t just some girly girl), and we became friends, then childhood sweethearts. Funny, seems he respected me for it. But we were also kids. Second guy I punched because he reached for my throat. I’m hyper-sensitive about my throat being touched, and he wasn’t being real nice about it, either. He was mostly just joking around, but not entirely. I was in a panic. I don’t recall even where I hit him, though I know I was aiming for face. He backed off and never bothered me again, looked a bit scared, but don’t know if that was my trying to hit him, or the look on my face (which gets very animal crazy when I panic, or so I’ve been told). He also avoided me after that - maybe because he felt bad, too, who knows.

5.) Do you believe this is a serious issue? Yes. Probably more serious in the perception of women and violence than the violence per se. That is, the unwillingness of women (and men) to see women being violent as a serious issue IS the serious issue. Once we get past the perceptions, all you have left are facts, and those can be handled by the laws.

6.) When women murder husbands/boyfriends, how should this be treated? Prosecute, please!

7.) Would you believe a woman who claimed self-defense though there was no evidence of her being battered? With NO evidence, I’d be pretty hesitant on self-defense. I might consider that she might have felt threatened in other ways, but it really depends on the situation and the people. Also, I’ve seen more cases of women becoming violent in response to non-violent-but-otherwise-bad situations when they suddenly realize what their current situation is doing to their KIDS. Easier to fight for someone else than yourself, sometimes, even if that means escalating. Still not a good idea.

8.) Where do you feel that female child abusers, child killers fit into this? I have to agree that access may play a role in the number of kids abused by women. Men are not trusted to be safe by DEFAULT, so have less access ALONE; women are more likely to be there alone in the first place. Women who feel they have no other place to release their rage may well take it out on kids. Or they may take it out there because they have more stress related to the kids themselves. Don’t know. Might be interesting to find out. Any opinion I have on this is not based on facts, just assumptions.

Also, have you included the emotional processing types refered to in abuse literature as part of this? (A/Abuser, D/Denier, V/Victim, as emotional roles based on A: need to make others express emotions for me; D: Need to deflect emotions, keep focus off me, avoid confrontation; V: able to express emotions and serve as release valve for the system/family/group.) I know I don’t have a full grasp of those roles and thier implications, but I do recall thinking that it was relevant to domestic violence, that women who ‘put up and shut up’ are D, women who call for help and then either go back to the same place or run away are V, and women who hit back or kill are A types. Also, that people seem to move from one method of coping to another, based on their perceptions of the situation (as the woman who sets herself up as a target in order to keep kids from being hit, taking on direct Victim role where before might have been doing the Denier thing). Just a thought. No idea if it is relevant. That darn Human Geography thing showing up again - situation, place, self-identified role, culturally-identified roles, and perception are always factors.

17

Hey hedra:

I always look forward to your posts! I suspect the A/D/V roles you were mentioning also apply to men, in that male victims of violence may fall into the same categories. There is almost no research on the characteristics of male victims however, so this is pure speculation. Thank you for all of your input, it has been quite helpful.

Needs2Know:

I look forward to your posts as well. IF was fun debating you in the Child violence debate only to find out we agreed. :slight_smile:

quote:


Well, they say it is usually men who do the "shaken baby" thang. Women usually club them, pour scalding water on them, cut them, or dip them into scalding water (I have seen more pictures of children with their skin peeling off). Step-dads are obviously at high risk of violence, particularly toward older children. Sex abuse also. But younger children and infants is mostly moms. Most of these moms are also low SES.

quote:

~~~What do you think of these studies that show women to be violent 50% of the time? Are they valid?

there is no complex answer to this and I don't want to bias your opinion by telling you my beliefs, so let me give you a quick history. Most of the stats you hear about (US Justice Dept) are not based on arrest records but on self-report surveys (a lot less impressive when you find THIS out). The questions regarding domestic violence come after people are asked about rape, assault, armed robbery, muggings, etc. Now women are socialized to identify domestic battery as a crime. Men are not socialized to see domestic battery as a crime (when they are the victim), thus it is often argued that even if men were inclined to report the incidents in the first place (which is unlikely) they may not even identify being beaten up by a girlfriend/wife as a crime, even if the abuse was severe. Thus the US Justice Department stats might be biased. (sorry if this gets long by the way)

What happens next is some of the people I mentioned in the last post (Steinmetz, Straus and Gelles, etc.) actually ask WOMEN, have you done this, that, the other thing. Low and behold women self-report acts of violence that actually exceed male violence.

Gradually these stats are partly excepted (there are still some holdouts, but most researchers now take the 50% incidence rate seriously), however the MOTIVE is contested. Dobash and Dobash argue that most of these incidents are self defense. It should also be noted the various political moves going on here. Feminists become concered these stats might be used to validate male violence, take funds away from battered women's shelters, etc. So what Straus and Gelles do next (this is the 1986 study) is actually ASK WOMEN why they hit. And low and behold, women self-report their motives for hitting as primarily anger and control, followed by jealousy, with self-defense clocking in at only 6% (9% of men report violence as self-defensive). Next Dobash and Dobash argue that the CONTEXT of the violence is still not being considered...namely that this whole area of research is neglecting the centuries of oppression women have suffered...essentially arguing violence is a legitimate means for women to assert control in a male dominated society. As a side fray, McNeely and Robinson (1987) discover that most of the women in battered women's shelters not only 1.) have perpetrated violence of a non self-defensive nature against their husbands/boyfriends but also 2.) have oftentimes been involved as perpetrators of child abuse. Needless to say they subsequently come under SEVERE attack.

This debate has been waging for 20 years with no consensus and no progress. We still know very little about what KINDS of women are violent, under what circumstances, and how to offer them treatment or prevention...because people are still arguing over the numbers.

Anyway, that said...my impression of the literature (and I have waded knee-deep into it working on my dissertation) is that the studies reporting the 50% are more empirically valid. Oftentimes the contrasting essays are just that, essays, with little supporting statistics...sort of saying "That just can't be true." I do find the criticisms of the US Justice statistics valid.

Anyway, I am concerned as I am writing with being fair to both sides of this issue...which is one of the reasons I value these external inputs. What do you think about these stats? Do you think they are valid.

Here is a link actually for the Overpeck article, regarding risk factors for maternal infanticide. I am not sure this brief abstract is particularly illuminating, but I invite you to give your impressions. I wish I had links to the Steinmetz and Straus and Gelles articles.

http://www.nejm.org/content/1998/0339/0017/1211.asp
18

I think what makes this difficult is that it’s so difficult to look at the situation without bias.

The first is that many people feel very passionate about this. They see any attempt to move the numbers one way or the other as an attack and will react violently (in the political sense).

The second is because of social stereotyping. Because women are weak and meek and men are so prone to violence because of social training it’s hard to believe that women aren’t actually meek and weak and men aren’t more prone to violence than women.

I think that’s one of the flaws of feminism, that they want to eliminate the perspective of women as weak and meek, but they play on it to gain political advantage. Obviously they don’t all do this, but I’ve seen examples on occasion. I’ve also seen it done on the individual scale.

In your opinion, avalon, are those studies done objectively?

19

To be fair, feminism is split on this issue. As you noted indeed some feminist philosophers do propogate the “Virgin Mary” image in female innocence (Gloria Steinem is one of these). However, as I noted Susan Steinmetz was one of about 3 feminist writers who exposed the high rate of male on female domestic violence and brought that issue to national attention. In working with these women, Steinmetz was surprised to find that they volunteered information about their perpetration of abuse. This led Steinmetz into her research into violence against men.

The situation was similar for Straus and Gelles, as most of their early work was regarding male battering of women, and like Steinmetz they came across this information by surprise.

Of course it is difficult to know exactly how objective any of these individuals. Also they may have started objective and due to the defensiveness they were put under, become more stern in their observation.

The McNeely and Richardson-Simpson article is criticised sometimes for hyperbole…it is entitled “The truth about domestic violence: A falsely framed issue.” I agree it is unfortunate they imply they know the “truth” although their methodology seems fine.

On the other hand the US Justice Dept stats are flawed, given their “pretest” effects…domestic violence questions asked after perhaps more “frightening” stranger violence questions are asked (armed robbery for instance) as well as the “nonresponse bias” of males being too embarrassed to endorse DV items.

If the debate had remained scholarly I think we would have been able to come to some more of a consensus, unfortunately it got very personal. One feminist writer falsely accused Murray Straus himself of wife-beating (there was no evidence, and in fact his X-wife came out to defend him). Steinmetz received death threats, threats to her family and children, and a bomb threat at a conference she was scheduled to give…like that is a good way for critics to display their pacifism. Generally the consensus is SLOWLY acknowledging female violence in intimate relationships as being nearly equal with male violence. Now most of the questions are over motive.

Do I think these scientists on either side are 100% objective? Given the personal nature of the debate I can not be sure of that. But new studies, as well as historical analyses (analysis of crime reports prior to the current era) support the contention of higher levels of female violence.

20

I had an abusive girlfriend once. Imagine something like phouka’s anecdote, but cast me as the doormat. Having trouble imagining it, aren’t you? I know the feeling. Anyhow, it started out small, but went into a downward spiral that some of you are probably all too familiar with. The more violent she got, the more afraid I got, the more clingy I got, the more violent she got, and so on. Maybe women don’t do it as much, (or maybe they do and it just doesn’t get reported), but they do do it. Power is power. Control is control. Abuse is abuse.